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[Mahoomie]

This year at 49 after suffering with what I thought was long covid I was sent for many blood test by GP and they all came back normal, yet no one ever suggested menopause or peri menopause! Anyway, after researching and watching Davina’s programme and reading her book I decided to ask GP for HRT.

I was seen by a lovely nurse who was the surgery menopause expert and seemed knowledgeable and empathetic on menopause and prescribed me Estrogel (eventually I found 3 pumps was just right for me) and Utrogestan 100 once a night continuously (even though I was still having periods, which I thought odd but she said it was fine). I read on the balance app that if taking Utrogestan vaginally it was was possible to half the dose and take every other night, so this is what I decided to do (I had read conflicting advice but went along with this as advised on there) My testosterone was found to be low, but on the low end of normal so I was able to get some privately online, and have been taking a pea sized blob of Testogel every day. This 3-way combination seemed to be perfect and I was feeling great! Right up until I moved on to the new shaped Estrogel bottles! Aaaggh symptoms seemed to come back.

Spoke to the nurse again and asked if I could try patches, she agreed and put me on Everol 75, and Utrogestan pessary 200 every night for 14 nights out of 28 cycle. I’ve used about 5 patches so far and right now I feel awful, sleep up the spout, am absolutely knackered all the time, no motivation, anxiety and mood is terrible, and confidence at all-time low - I’ve not even started on the 200 Utrogestan pessaries part yet. What the hell is going on?

Can anyone help or shed some light, could 75 be too much, too little? Should I try something else. At this stage I feel like giving the gel another try again - is it back to normal now? Any advice or recommendations would be so gratefully received as I feel at a complete loss right now.

[Peach8]

I can't comment on the change of oestrogel as I use sandrena but it could be that you don't absorb via the patch as well as you absorb the gel.

[laszla]

I've always been a poor absorber of hrt but my E2 levels plummeted when I briefly swapped to patches from oestrogel so I went back to the gel post-haste. Sounds like that this is the case with you so I would in your position go back to the gel - I have the new smaller bottles but can't say I've noticed a difference from the old bottles...

[Mahoomie]

Oh thank you both @peach8 and @laszia - sounds like I could be the same as you laszia, I thought something seemed so odd. So do you find that the new bottles are ok for you? (the cylindrical tube-like ones?), and @peach8 how do you find Sandrena, do you get relief from your symptoms on this gel?

[Moog77]

I actually am spooked out by this post!!!!!!!!!

I was just about to post my story which is sooooooooooo similar.

I have been using gel and utrogestan since May after all the patch hoo ha. Have been pretty stable on it. About 6 weeks ago I started upping to 4 pumps from 3 just to see what would happen, As per previous attempts it appears I dont tolerate higher doses of oestrogen with sore boobs and ongoing cramps. So on last Monday I went back to 3 pumps. After a few days of desperately trying to source the old style bottle and getting nowhere even at my last resort private pharmacy I decided my only real option was to go back to patches as the new oestrogen is just not an option for me.

I have been on a patch since last Thursday and oh my god I feel terrible. Almost like I am pregnant. Tired. Exhausted actually. Flat mood. Bloated. Cramps and nausea like you would not believe. I am actually scared with how bad I feel.

The reality is it seems the new bottles are all thats available and Im not willing to use them. I was using patches quite successfully before until there was issues with patch supply - and I had a couple of issues with them sticking on my left side - weird but true. I am going to stick it out for a few more weeks but it aint fun and I am really struggling. @mahoomie I feel your pain. I think switching up can definitely affect you.

Edit - I am 46 and on Utrogestan vaginally days 14 - 26 of my cycle.

[laszla]

I haven't noticed any difference with the new cylindrical bottles - I doubt they would have changed the actual formula of the gel ?

[Moog77]

there are far too many woman noticing issues. At Boots today the pharmacist said she has had a number of woman asking for the old style bottles back - which is interesting because I raised it with them back in July and they looked at me like I was losing the plot. Same with a local pharmacy - too many people complaining for it not to be an issue. Some of us may be more sensitive than others. It  is clear that the dose coming out of each pump in the new style bottles is less than it should be and wholly inconsistent.

[Mahoomie]

Oh Moog sounds like we are going through similar - I'm so sorry to hear things are up and down for you too. Seems to really be a lot of women noticing the same regarding the new style bottles. Too many not to be something in it, whether its the formula or the way the pump is delivering the dosage, something is definitely up. I do hope they get to the bottom of it for all our sakes!  Laszia so glad it's not causing you problems, that's so lucky.

[Moog77]

Oh Moog sounds like we are going through similar - I'm so sorry to hear things are up and down for you too. Seems to really be a lot of women noticing the same regarding the new style bottles. Too many not to be something in it, whether its the formula or the way the pump is delivering the dosage, something is definitely up. I do hope they get to the bottom of it for all our sakes!  Laszia so glad it's not causing you problems, that's so lucky.

I think waiting at least 6 weeks to see if things have settled just a little is a good rule of thumb - thats only my experience though - when I first started HRT i remember almost bailing out because I didnt feel any benefits until one morning i woke up at the end of the 3rd week and I knew right away something was different.

The situation with the gel really is a pain. My pharmacist said there is 'intermittent' issues with estradot patches as well. What are we meant to do? Its simply not good enough.

Hope things settle soon - hang in there!

[Kirsti]

HI

I am having problems with the new gel bottle as well. So something is definitely up. I have noticed the consistency is different as well as the dosing amount. I am wondering if that means that our bodies need to readjust to take up the new style gel. Luckily I have an appointment with a menopause specialist tomorrow (good timing) so I will quiz her on this, but it is a nightmare for some of us.
I am expecting to either have to go onto a patch and see what happens or try the Sandrena Gel.

I will keep you updated. x

[pastie supper]

Hi Mahoomie, All I can do is tell you my experience with gels and patches and if I moved from my three pumps to an Evorel75, I'd be feeling exactly as bad as you are.

Evorel Conti is the cheapest HRT that many women are given at 12 months into menopause in the hope it works enough and they accept it and don't come back.
It was my first HRT at the 12 month mark, made me feel a little better at first (fewer night sweats) but by ten weeks I felt awful and stopped using it, I was very depressed all of a sudden and tired and grumpy. I didn't like myself on Evorel Conti at all and tbh if I was told I'd feel that way forever, I'd end it so they'd remember me as I am normally!

I kept asking for oestrogel, but my GP's practice doesn't give out separate items.

I had to wait over a year to get an alternative which was Evorel50 and provera.
Provera is the strongest tranquiliser I've ever had in my life, but it doesn't do it in a good way.

Evorel50 didn't work at all. I thought it might give the initial mildly good effect that Evorel Conti had done over a year earlier, but it did nothing. I have read so much here about women not absorbing these things and I'm sure I simply got nothing in my bloodstream from those patches in the three months of trying.

By this stage I was two years post menopausal and still fighting to get HRT.
This is getting long sorry,

Estradot 50 was next. It worked better than anything I'd had before, but still didn't take the physical symptoms away, just helped in a subtle way.
Then I saw the specialist doctor in person for the first time and I asked why I hadn't been allowed Oestrogel so far (I asked my GP a lot)
so she let me try oestrogel two pumps.
OMG What a difference!
For a whole two weeks I felt better than I had in a decade.
Then flushing started again and they said have three pumps!
So I'm now on three pumps of the new shaped bottle instead of two pumps from the old shaped bottle, that is probably why I haven't suffered from the issues around the change in bottle.
I'm two and a bit months into taking oestrogel now and I'd say that the patches aren't even similar. I think they forgot to put the medicine in the patches and sold me sticking plasters instead 

My advice is ditch the patches and get either Sandrena gel or an increased dose of Oestrogel.
Maybe after being deprived of oestrogen on Evorel your body would respond more favourably to your old dose than it did at the time the bottle shape changed?

[Mahoomie]

Thank you so much! This is exactly how I feel Pastie Supper! This has really helped me and especially to know that I'm not going mad! I do have some gel left so I'm pulling off this stupid patch now and going to apply the gel - will report back. Thank you again!

Kirsti, sorry to hear you are having problems with the gel - what a pain this is! I do hope you have joy with the alternative options. Do keep us posted. Good luck with your specialist today! x

[pastie supper]

Evorel75 is supposed to be interchangeable with three pumps of oestrogel. That means on average they deliver the same dose, but women vary a lot in how much they absorb, so just pick what feels better and make sure you tell your GP.

Your doctor ought to be fine with it and tell you to take the utrogestan as was originally planned.

I hope you feel better soon.

[Moog77]

I think the gel is 'stronger' in that its almost an immediate hit whilst the patches are more of a slow release. I really want to stick to gel but the new bottle is next to useless for me and I simply cannot source any old style. I have about half a bottle of old stuff left and I am keeping that for emergency use only.

Im so tired of faffing around with it all I really am. It didnt help I had an interview for a promotion today and I was wittering absolute shite to a panel of people I know quite well at work. I wanted to caveat at the start - or end - of the interview by saying my hormones are a bloody mental mess just now I cant help it!!!

[Mahoomie]

Oh Moog, I totally understand how you are feeling, I wish it was easier, I too am fed up with messing about with all the different doses, options etc. Good luck for the results of your interview, fingers crossed they won't have noticed as much as you felt 

Thanks Pastie, I have an appointment in a week's time so will run it by them x