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[Flossieteacake]

I went from 75s to 100s patches on Friday afternoon. I've had them before and didn't react like that, I remember I felt a bit grotty for a few days but nothing like I did yesterday. Not sure about the heat, I keep out of it as much as possible. I'll ring the doc tomorrow but I don't know what to do today. I don't really want to put a 100 patch on. I've got 75s left.

I am so sorry you had such a bad night. Do you think it is possible the heat had an effect on you? Am I right in thinking you have gone from a 75 to 100 patch?

I am very sensitive to any medication changes and if I need to increase my patch I have always had to cut a bit off rather then going up by the full 25. Rather then increase to 100 perhaps you could do something in between 75 and 100. This is what I have always done.

Although you are keeping out the heat if your home is hot this could also be making you feel a bit unwell. It is okay not to put a 100 patch on. You do not have to do anything you are uncomfortable with.

I am very sorry you are having such a difficult time. I know how upsetting that is.

[Crow Lady]

It's the mental health side of it all that terrifies me. I've been on antidepressants for 20 years. I was always frightened of starting menopause in case it triggered the panic attacks. I was starting to have anxiety, palpitations, mood swings etc just before the doc told me I was in menopause 14 months ago. Starting hrt knocked all that on the head, but I'm struggling to get the balance right. When i was on 100s patches at the back end of last year and the first couple of months of this year i felt pretty good  but it made me have quite heavy bleeding. Dropping to 75s stopped the bleeding but I wasn't feeling great and I could hardly move with the aches and pains.

[Ermin2trude]

Hi Crow Lady,

I understand the anxiety, palpitations, panic attacks only too well. My GP was lovely but admitted he wasn’t a menopause expert. It was so bad my husband made an appointment at Newson Health, drove me there, handed me over along with his credit card and asked them to sort me out. An hour later and having sobbed my way through several boxes of tissues, I emerged with a plan, a prescription and most of all (for my anxiety), I felt heard and understood, and I understood what was happening to me. It was probably the best £220.00 we’ve ever spent. I don’t know if you’re in a position to do something similar, but if you can, for your mental health, it’s worth every penny.

I’m sorry you feel so awful.
Ermin x

[Flossieteacake]

It's the mental health side of it all that terrifies me. I've been on antidepressants for 20 years. I was always frightened of starting menopause in case it triggered the panic attacks. I was starting to have anxiety, palpitations, mood swings etc just before the doc told me I was in menopause 14 months ago. Starting hrt knocked all that on the head, but I'm struggling to get the balance right. When i was on 100s patches at the back end of last year and the first couple of months of this year i felt pretty good  but it made me have quite heavy bleeding. Dropping to 75s stopped the bleeding but I wasn't feeling great and I could hardly move with the aches and pains.

I understand. It is always a worry when mental health is triggered. You are not alone so please know you can post on here any time.

[CLKD]

How was your mental health during your menstruating years prior to peri?  I was very low in the 24 hours prior to a bleed even when a period wasn't due.  Also had PAINFUL++ periods  every month.

Low oestrogen can cause aches and pains because muscles may become lax.  Do U take pain relief?

[Crow Lady]

I haven't been taking anything for pain relief.
Definitely knew when my period was due ! I started taking sertraline just before my son turned 1, ( hes almost 20 now ). I had started having massive anxiety and panic attacks, the sertraline sorted it out. A few times over the years I've almost come off them, slowly decreased to a minimum dose but then I'd get stressed out and would end up putting the dose up again , with the docs advice. I don't handle stress well at all, and unfortunately I've a lot of it in my life, that I can't change.

How was your mental health during your menstruating years prior to peri?  I was very low in the 24 hours prior to a bleed even when a period wasn't due.  Also had PAINFUL++ periods  every month.

Low oestrogen can cause aches and pains because muscles may become lax.  Do U take pain relief?

[joziel]

Crow Lady... a few thoughts!

Are you on testosterone? I wonder if you could try staying at 75 patches and adding in testosterone? Aches and joint pains are one of the things T is supposed to be good for. Joint pain was one of my pre-HRT symptoms and has completely resolved now. I did start testosterone at the same time as estrogen, because that's what Newson Health do, so I'm not sure which hormone resolved it for sure. But I'm only on 2 pumps of gel which isn't a high E dose. Perhaps you don't need an estrogen increase at all, you are just low on T?

The other idea is what Flossieteacake says, which is not to go to 100 but to 87.5 - which is splitting the difference. I always did that on patches. What patches do you have? Just 75s and 100? It might be hard to consistently do that without asking for some 25 patches - which you can cut in half to make 12.5 any time you want to increase.

The symptoms you describe happening after an increase are a 'too high estrogen' or 'too suddenly raised' estrogen side effects to me. I recognise those well. Try not to be anxious because it's not your mood or mental state causing this, it's your hormones and HRT causing a physiological response which you experience as anxiety - but it's not, it's physical, as a cause. (Of course then we get worried about it and that makes it worse, but fundamentally it's physical.)

[CLKD]

Anxiety hits without warning.  Gut feels off, thighs go weak followed by calves and I hit the floor. 

Is the Sertraline for anxiety or depression?  If it's worked in the past then it may be that your hormones are over riding the dose, R U able to increase or maybe add a different anti-anxiety medication? 

I have used Bachs rescue remedy mouth spray with success about 20 mins prior to an event: 2 quirts on2 my tongue and don't think about whether it will/not work.  I've never needed another dose in that day.  Relaxation therapy has helped: when I could find time to practice 

 

[Crow Lady]

The doc tested my testosterone levels last August. I had no detectable levels ! He put me on testegel for 2 months and I was really poorly the whole time, really nauseous, a heavy feeling and grotty. After 2 months he checked my levels and they were double what they should have been! He stopped it straight away. And i started feeling better 24 hours later.
I think my T levels were done earlier this year, they were OK as far as I know. Wonder if it's worth asking to get them checked again soon, because I'm not due another review for 2 months.
I do have 50s patches so I could try the 87s. I haven't had a patch on since last night. I still feel a bit crappy and anxious so I'll just put a 75 on tonight. I'm dreading putting it on.

Crow Lady... a few thoughts!

Are you on testosterone? I wonder if you could try staying at 75 patches and adding in testosterone? Aches and joint pains are one of the things T is supposed to be good for. Joint pain was one of my pre-HRT symptoms and has completely resolved now. I did start testosterone at the same time as estrogen, because that's what Newson Health do, so I'm not sure which hormone resolved it for sure. But I'm only on 2 pumps of gel which isn't a high E dose. Perhaps you don't need an estrogen increase at all, you are just low on T?

The other idea is what Flossieteacake says, which is not to go to 100 but to 87.5 - which is splitting the difference. I always did that on patches. What patches do you have? Just 75s and 100? It might be hard to consistently do that without asking for some 25 patches - which you can cut in half to make 12.5 any time you want to increase.

The symptoms you describe happening after an increase are a 'too high estrogen' or 'too suddenly raised' estrogen side effects to me. I recognise those well. Try not to be anxious because it's not your mood or mental state causing this, it's your hormones and HRT causing a physiological response which you experience as anxiety - but it's not, it's physical, as a cause. (Of course then we get worried about it and that makes it worse, but fundamentally it's physical.)

[CLKD]

Thyroid function levels - some GPs don't do more than the 'usual' blood tests even when patients continue to complain of symptoms.  Do read the appropriate threads on the Forum about thyroid .  Make notes 

[joziel]

Crow Lady if your T was zero or almost nothing and then when tested it was double what it should be, it sounds like the correct course of action would have been to reduce your T dosage - not stop it??

If you were getting too much T, I can see why you'd feel really bad. But equally having too little T is going to mean the same probably...

If you're not on T now, it's unlikely your T levels were optimal. (Optimal means the same as a pre-menopausal woman - don't let them tell you that your very low post-menopausal levels are "normal".)

You could take Testogel every other day for eg - that would halve the amount and should see you with a normal level.

[Crow Lady]

I spoke to my usual doc yesterday. I'm already going in next week for vit d and calcium tests, he's also going to do testosterone, oestrogen and progesterone levels too. He said he thinks I might need testosterone.

Crow Lady if your T was zero or almost nothing and then when tested it was double what it should be, it sounds like the correct course of action would have been to reduce your T dosage - not stop it??

If you were getting too much T, I can see why you'd feel really bad. But equally having too little T is going to mean the same probably...

If you're not on T now, it's unlikely your T levels were optimal. (Optimal means the same as a pre-menopausal woman - don't let them tell you that your very low post-menopausal levels are "normal".)

You could take Testogel every other day for eg - that would halve the amount and should see you with a normal level.

[joziel]

Hope it helps.   

[Crow Lady]

The test results are starting to come in. I've had a text off the docs to say my vitamin D is low.


   VITAMIN D Report, Abnormal
Coded entry   Serum total 25-hydroxy vitamin D level (Xabo0) 39 nmol/L [50 - 99,999]
Below low reference limit; <30 nmol/L Deficiency
>30 - 50 nmol/L Insufficiency
>50 nmol/L Adequate Status

Different places online say different things, some say it is very low, some slightly low and some normal.

I do have nearly all the symptoms. The main article I read showed 14 main symptoms and I have 13 of them.
Docs have prescribed Colecalciferol 20,000unit capsules - 14 capsule - take one twice a week for 7 weeks.
So I'm hoping this is going to help but I'm not getting my hopes up. Anybody been in this situation?

[CLKD]

I'll have a lookC to find out my VitD levels - Nurse couldn't find them last night 

'Our pharmacies won't sell any more than 1,000 VitD tablets whereas my GP prescribed 3000 daily.  So I pop 3 during the day  '. still looking - got it: written in 2020:

3 Summers ago both Mum and I had low VitD symptoms.  We don't live together.  We both garden daily.  We both felt very tired.  I would do 20 mins. weeding and then sit.  Without moving at all, I simply couldn't.  For 2 hours.  I went for a blood test and levels came back low even though I am outside a lot.  I rarely wear sun screen.  Capsules on prescription lifted levels 4 us both. [VitD levels. I take 3,2000IU daily].


I've had no problems since but recognise what the symptoms might be.