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Author Topic: Too much estrogen or not absorbing ?  (Read 33548 times)

Pippa52

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Re: Too much estrogen or not absorbing ?
« Reply #285 on: August 25, 2022, 11:57:55 AM »

Yes, I know. I don't know what I'm more worried about - that this is all normal ectopic beats and so they are not really going to be interested or help me much (or I'm not going to want to try the meds to help and I'll be stuck like this!) or that it's something serious that I'll need meds for.  :'(

Joziel…you are young and obviously very fit as you work out which I doubt if it was anything serious you would be able to do?  It may well be more than likely still due to the change of hormones etc fingers tightly crossed that you get your appointment very soon so they can then investigate and put your mind at rest or treat anything that may need it xxx
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joziel

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Re: Too much estrogen or not absorbing ?
« Reply #286 on: August 25, 2022, 01:41:24 PM »

Pippa, yes, I think it is either the berberine (still not dismissed that yet - now day 4 - no palps right now, but had them bad all night last night). Or it's all the hormonal changes, going from low estrogen, to very high estrogen, back to lowish-but-ok estrogen made by my own ovaries again.

I don't know if I'm very fit as I don't push myself to continue when things get really uncomfortable  ;D but I do work out 4x weekly and working out actually helps the palps - I can get rid of them, if I do a workout. It's like it makes my heart stop pissing around with all these wasted extra beats and actually do what it's made for and be useful  ;D ;D ;D ;D 

However, workouts at midnight are not very practical  ;D

It's not really an appointment I'm waiting on now, it's getting this Kardia thing in the post (supposed to be delivered today but I'll believe it when I see it) so I can do some ECGs when I'm at my worst and email them to the cardio nurse.
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joziel

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Re: Too much estrogen or not absorbing ?
« Reply #287 on: August 25, 2022, 11:59:09 PM »

Pippa….with your Kardia device, what result did it give you for ECGs?

I just got mine in the post today and it says Normal Sinus rhythm. I paid £9.99 to be able to detect more arrhythmias for a month and still it says Normal Sinus rhythm. I’m pretty sure I’m having palps now….

Did you also get only that result? I guess I will still send it to the nurse as they may see more than Kardia does!
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Pippa52

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Re: Too much estrogen or not absorbing ?
« Reply #288 on: August 26, 2022, 07:58:09 AM »

Joziel… that’s really great news that it says normal sinus rhythm which is exactly the result I got when I wasn’t having one of my tachycardia episodes. When my heart went too fast it’s simply said tachycardia but no sign of a atrial fibrillation or other abnormalities. Basically when I get an episode it is simply my heart going extremely fast but no other abnormalities. The cardiologist consultant looked at my tracing as you know and said it’s completely normal just a fast heart rate at the time of taking the ECG. When not having an episode my heart rate etc is also totally normal . The fact it states you have  normal sinus rhythm even when you are having ectopics sounds incredibly positive to me but your cardiac nurse will be able to tell you far more obviously . Did you do a six lead ECG as well as the normal one? X
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joziel

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Re: Too much estrogen or not absorbing ?
« Reply #289 on: August 26, 2022, 09:35:44 AM »

Yes, I'm only doing the 6 lead ECGs on it. I thought that would give much more info.

The only notable thing is that my heart rate is much faster than usual when the palps are happening. I mean, my resting (awake) heart rate is 45bpm on average. When I had woken up 1 minute ago due to palps this morning, and sat up to take an ECG immediately, my heart rate was 76bpm. Which for me, lying in bed, is almost double what I'd expect. It was also beating harder than usual. (My heart beating fast might be in the normal range, given how slow my resting pulse usually is  ;D )

Do you get ectopic beats at these times, according to your cardiologist?

The thing is, if I use my blood pressure machine, it will give me the 'irregular pulse' icon when taking my blood pressure. So there is something being detected there... even if my ECG machine then says 'Normal Sinus Rhythm'  :o What's going on there then?!  The ECG machine knows they are normal ectopic beats but the blood pressure machine isn't sophisticated enough to detect that?

I have yet to run the blood pressure machine and then immediately after the ECG (or vv) in the same palp episode, which I intend to do...

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Pippa52

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Re: Too much estrogen or not absorbing ?
« Reply #290 on: August 27, 2022, 05:12:34 PM »

Yes, I'm only doing the 6 lead ECGs on it. I thought that would give much more info.

The only notable thing is that my heart rate is much faster than usual when the palps are happening. I mean, my resting (awake) heart rate is 45bpm on average. When I had woken up 1 minute ago due to palps this morning, and sat up to take an ECG immediately, my heart rate was 76bpm. Which for me, lying in bed, is almost double what I'd expect. It was also beating harder than usual. (My heart beating fast might be in the normal range, given how slow my resting pulse usually is  ;D )

Do you get ectopic beats at these times, according to your cardiologist?

The thing is, if I use my blood pressure machine, it will give me the 'irregular pulse' icon when taking my blood pressure. So there is something being detected there... even if my ECG machine then says 'Normal Sinus Rhythm'  :o What's going on there then?!  The ECG machine knows they are normal ectopic beats but the blood pressure machine isn't sophisticated enough to detect that?

I have yet to run the blood pressure machine and then immediately after the ECG (or vv) in the same palp episode, which I intend to do...

joziel.....I never had ectopic beats just the very fast heart rate in episodes of up to 155bpm.  Thankfully at the moment they have gone and am for the last 2 days beginning to feel relatively normal compared to what the last few months have been like.  The Kadia machine is very reliable and the consultant said he rates them highly - it also means if a patient is worried they can take a trace and send it straight off instead of having to wait to see a Doctor etc.  It will be good to hear what the Cardio Nurse thinks when she sees your tracings so you can get an idea of what needs to be done next.  Have you recorded any ectopics on the Kardia yet? How are you feeling today? x
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joziel

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Re: Too much estrogen or not absorbing ?
« Reply #291 on: August 27, 2022, 05:30:44 PM »

Yes, I have some super palp episodes recorded  ;D ;D ;D  Most of them at 5.30am or 6am... Kardia says they are 'normal sinus rhythm'.  :o  But my usually very slow pulse (45bpm!) is going at 81bpm at these times, even though I'm lying down in bed (well, I've just sat up to take the ECG).

I also have recorded an episode where my hands and feet were starting to throb faintly - which is what happens before the palps start. And I've got a normal 'no symptoms' recording, if that's any use for comparison.

I'm going to email the ECGs off to the nurse specialist at the start of this coming week.

Unfortunately stopping the berberine doesn't seem to have helped, as I'm now at day 7 off it. But I'm not going to re-start it whilst all this is going on, if it can have cardiac effects.

I'm so glad you're feeling better - long may it continue!!
« Last Edit: August 27, 2022, 05:32:33 PM by joziel »
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Pippa52

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Re: Too much estrogen or not absorbing ?
« Reply #292 on: August 28, 2022, 08:47:22 AM »

joziel - that's fab you have got the episodes recorded they will now be able to pin point things and address anything that needs addressing.  It will be great for you to send the tracings off and see what the Cardio Nurse recommends for the next step if indeed any steps are needed.  Hope so much you have a good day today x
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joziel

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Re: Too much estrogen or not absorbing ?
« Reply #293 on: August 29, 2022, 04:58:45 PM »

ECGs just went off to the cardio nurse, so let's see.

I sent her 2x 'worst episodes', 2x 'episodes just starting/pulsing and throbbing' and 1x 'control/no symptoms'.  ;D ;D ;D 

Plus my 7 day BP readings (perfect) and a thesis by way of an explanation, which will probably take her about a year to read  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  (Or she just won't read it and will only look at the ECGs!)

Kardia is insistent they are 'normal sinus rhythm' even when I'm quivering all over the place with palps, so let's hope they are innocent/okay palps....

Meanwhile I think things might be getting better, as I seem to be sleeping deeper for parts of the night now. I am hoping this means it's not happening ALL night anymore. It is not happening at all during the day now and my BP is totally normal always (even during palps).

Approaching 3 weeks off estrogen now and 8 days off berberine.

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joziel

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Re: Too much estrogen or not absorbing ?
« Reply #294 on: August 31, 2022, 12:48:08 PM »

I'm going to leave the forum after this post, but I did want to post some kind of a 'resolution' to all this - in case anyone is reading the thread in the future.

I had a reply back from the cardiac nurse. She said:

"All of these ECGs are normal. You can still feeling your heart beating more forcefully, yet all is well (I get this). Be reassured this all looks great. If the BP is not well controlled, you can indeed have more rhythm fluctuations. But all that looks good too now you are off estrogen. We can go ahead with an echocardiogram no problem – about 8 months to wait at the moment unfortunately. Interestingly, the hormone / palpitation link is something we are really interested in the moment, with specialists a little perplexed by the association even. Do feel free to send any further tracings through if you need to."

So that's great and I am very reassured there is nothing wrong with my heart. I will have the echocardiogram, even though there is a wait. I am hopeful they are going to do further research into all this and have more answers for women in the future as to why estrogen causes this for some of us. Now I am off estrogen, my symptoms continue to improve and I just get occasional symptoms (palps) at night or when I wake. My BP returned to normal immediately on stopping HRT. The high blood pressure episodes at night, caused by HRT, might be responsible for causing all these palps. That's my best guess.

For the record and before I sign out permanently: I am currently on 200mg of utrogestan orally, and continuously. This is working to suppress my endo just as well as any synthetic POP has ever done - and I highly recommend trying this to anyone else who has endo, and would like to be on HRT without aggravating endo. Or even to anyone not on HRT, but who wants a natural alternative to the synthetic progestins in POPs for controlling their endo. If doctors won't prescribe utrogestan alone, you can accept the script for both estrogen and utrogestan - and just take the utrogestan. If you get breakthrough bleeding, just schedule a bleed by stopping for 5 days every 3 months.

The desogestrel POP suppressed my estrogen/ovaries so I had low estrogen symptoms and caused this mess in the first place for me. I really don't recommend desogestrel to any women, especially peri women.

I'm going to leave the forum now. I feel like my own crisis has resolved and I'm really thankful to those who've helped. I hope I've been a little helpful to others, in the time I've been here. Pippa, I hope that you too are on the right path now...

Unfortunately there seems to be a bit of a witch hunt and personality war going on, on the intermittent fasting thread, and also carried through into other threads now - where everything I say is being picked apart for the sake of it by multiple people. I'm not interested in putting myself through being attacked constantly, or in personality wars. I've had a really tough year (as evidenced here!). I say things the way I see them. I might be blunt but I don't mean to cause offence. I guess the written word sometimes doesn't convey tone of voice and can be misconstrued. One of the people who was very helpful to me (ATB) has already left, for similar reasons, so perhaps it is just how this forum rolls.

Good luck to you all in your own journeys. Don't stop researching and looking for answers. Remember that science is in its infancy when it comes to women's hormones and you may have to experiment with some fringe ideas. And do check out Lara Briden's excellent book 'Hormone Repair Manual' for more info on the benefits of body identical progesterone.



 
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Gnatty

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Re: Too much estrogen or not absorbing ?
« Reply #295 on: August 31, 2022, 01:52:22 PM »

I'm sorry to see you go Joziel. However I don't think there is a witch hunt going on here. Whilst you and ATB both gave your time and advice which was greatly appreciated, a couple of things strike me:
I think sometimes you were both a little blunt as you said yourself. There is no need to be! We can always read our posts first and edit them if we feel we might cause offence. The other point I would like to make is that I felt both of you sometimes didn't really like it if others had a different point of view to your own. For example the post on wildly fluctuating hormone readings. Your opinion was that they must be errors whereas another member said that it is indeed possible to have very high readings. Equally the fasting thread. Let's all just try and be a bit more gentle with each other!
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Limpy

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Re: Too much estrogen or not absorbing ?
« Reply #296 on: August 31, 2022, 06:04:25 PM »

Joziel it is such a shame that you have left MM. Your posts were informative and useful.
Thank you for the things you've said/posted.
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Smurph

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Re: Too much estrogen or not absorbing ?
« Reply #297 on: August 31, 2022, 07:45:07 PM »

I'm going to leave the forum after this post, but I did want to post some kind of a 'resolution' to all this - in case anyone is reading the thread in the future.

I had a reply back from the cardiac nurse. She said:

"All of these ECGs are normal. You can still feeling your heart beating more forcefully, yet all is well (I get this). Be reassured this all looks great. If the BP is not well controlled, you can indeed have more rhythm fluctuations. But all that looks good too now you are off estrogen. We can go ahead with an echocardiogram no problem – about 8 months to wait at the moment unfortunately. Interestingly, the hormone / palpitation link is something we are really interested in the moment, with specialists a little perplexed by the association even. Do feel free to send any further tracings through if you need to."

So that's great and I am very reassured there is nothing wrong with my heart. I will have the echocardiogram, even though there is a wait. I am hopeful they are going to do further research into all this and have more answers for women in the future as to why estrogen causes this for some of us. Now I am off estrogen, my symptoms continue to improve and I just get occasional symptoms (palps) at night or when I wake. My BP returned to normal immediately on stopping HRT. The high blood pressure episodes at night, caused by HRT, might be responsible for causing all these palps. That's my best guess.

For the record and before I sign out permanently: I am currently on 200mg of utrogestan orally, and continuously. This is working to suppress my endo just as well as any synthetic POP has ever done - and I highly recommend trying this to anyone else who has endo, and would like to be on HRT without aggravating endo. Or even to anyone not on HRT, but who wants a natural alternative to the synthetic progestins in POPs for controlling their endo. If doctors won't prescribe utrogestan alone, you can accept the script for both estrogen and utrogestan - and just take the utrogestan. If you get breakthrough bleeding, just schedule a bleed by stopping for 5 days every 3 months.

The desogestrel POP suppressed my estrogen/ovaries so I had low estrogen symptoms and caused this mess in the first place for me. I really don't recommend desogestrel to any women, especially peri women.

I'm going to leave the forum now. I feel like my own crisis has resolved and I'm really thankful to those who've helped. I hope I've been a little helpful to others, in the time I've been here. Pippa, I hope that you too are on the right path now...

Unfortunately there seems to be a bit of a witch hunt and personality war going on, on the intermittent fasting thread, and also carried through into other threads now - where everything I say is being picked apart for the sake of it by multiple people. I'm not interested in putting myself through being attacked constantly, or in personality wars. I've had a really tough year (as evidenced here!). I say things the way I see them. I might be blunt but I don't mean to cause offence. I guess the written word sometimes doesn't convey tone of voice and can be misconstrued. One of the people who was very helpful to me (ATB) has already left, for similar reasons, so perhaps it is just how this forum rolls.

Good luck to you all in your own journeys. Don't stop researching and looking for answers. Remember that science is in its infancy when it comes to women's hormones and you may have to experiment with some fringe ideas. And do check out Lara Briden's excellent book 'Hormone Repair Manual' for more info on the benefits of body identical progesterone.

Oh Joziel, I’m gutted to see you go. You have been such a great help to me and I was so grateful that you put me onto Laura Briden. Her book has been invaluable and i’d not have read it if it weren’t for you. Your knowledge of progesterone has helped me so much. Thank you and I wish you all the best.

On a side note - Why oh why do we have to infight and fall out? We are all in this together and it’s such a shame when people feel the need to leave, especially when they’re so helpful to others struggling. If you don’t agree with what someone says then it’s probably best to just say nothing if you can’t be constructive and respectful so that valued members don’t feel the need to go. Very sad.
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Pippa52

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Re: Too much estrogen or not absorbing ?
« Reply #298 on: August 31, 2022, 11:04:48 PM »

joziel… very sorry to see you go but totally understand. I’m so pleased that you are improving that is wonderful news. I too am improving and feeling a lot better I have had a really good few days and life is beginning to get back at long last to some sort of normality. We had a fantastic day out on my husband‘s birthday today something I couldn’t have dreamt of doing a few weeks ago. I just wanted to wish you all the very best in the future and hope you continue to improve which I am sure you will. Xxx
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Marchlove

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Re: Too much estrogen or not absorbing ?
« Reply #299 on: September 01, 2022, 06:40:59 AM »

Farewell Joziel, sorry to see you go, but not unexpected.
Your courage and determination to get to the route of your issues has been an inspiration and the knowledge you have gained and passed on to others on this forum will be sorely missed.
As Pippa has said it’s wonderful to hear of your improvement and I’m sure it will continue.
Fantastic that you’ve had improvements too Pippa!

I totally agree, Lara Briden’s books on menopause are about the best you can get and go beyond the normal mantra.

Hope everyone has a good day. x
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