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[joziel]

Gilla... I haven't got as far as non-IGE and IGE allergies    Where can I read more about that idea? I feel like I'm just stabbing around in the dark making random guesses at things.

Pippa52... your symptoms sound very similar to mine really. I know that doesn't help you, but it helps me to not feel totally alone! I also dread nights and am awake for a lot of them. You will probably find many posts here from me in the middle of the night, unable to sleep  But I'm interested in the fact that you have managed to take estrogen (in some form!) in the past and been okay, because that gives me hope... So you were on Oestrogel with 3 pumps for 20 years, and that was okay...? Have you tried going back onto it since then, and do you know what about the change in formulation stopped you absorbing it? And when you were on the Sandrena were you okay with the palps and jitters? Tell me more about the history of the anxiety/palps or jitters symptoms for you - when they started for you in relation to each product - is it something which only started when you switched to patches?

I'm just wondering if I should try some gel, because my thinking is that if you apply the gel in the morning, it will have worn off come night time (some) and maybe less estrogen coming into the blood stream during the night. Which might help stop some of these symptoms. I mean, the patch is providing a constant supply 24/7 after it gets warmed up. I did some googling and it seems that natural estrogen levels (in pre-menopausal women) vary even over 24hrs. So maybe having a constant steady amount of it, actually isn't the best thing in terms of what the body is used to?

Tonight I am going to remove my 50 patch and leave my little bit of 12.5 patch on only, so I will have much less estrogen overnight. I think the half-life of the patch is 2.7 hours, so this really should reduce my estrogen quite a bit in the night. And we'll see if I have a better night and early morning. If I do, I will repeat the experiment next week at the same time in case it's a fluke - and if it is still better I will see if I can try a gel. It's that or take patches off every night and stick them on again in the morning, which I don't think is going to work?!

[sweettooth]

Hi Gilla so sorry to read of your suffering.  I haven’t read all the post but my thinking is it was covid/or vaccine, it raises histamine.  I am sturuging desperately since my one and only Pfizer March 21 then took covid April 22!  My Estrogen simply not working it’s horrendous.  I’m afraid to change my Estrogen but now feel it may help and I can’t keep going like this!  I’m sooo exhausted, low and anx, palps and racing heart etc etc since vaccine & worse since covid. Increasing did not help! My levels of E are good but being blocked in some way.
I truly feel for you & any other ladies in this horrid situation! 
Tina Peers clinic deals a lot with histamine issues is there any chance you could book in there? X

[Gilla999]

Pippa so interesting on the Pfeizer jab. I know that Covid itself definitely lowered my Estrogen level and it never recovered (either that or it was just a massive coincidence that the two things happened at exactly the same time). Certainly from my own experience and everything I've read the waking up in the middle of the night with a jump is a classic low Estrogen adrenaline surge, as well as the palpitations. I'd be really interested to know what your Estrogen level is when it comes back (though of course realise symptoms are more important). I hear you on the sensitive to doses thing though - I'm the same and it is a total pain. Could an option be trying wearing two Estradot patches - 1 x 25mg and 1 x 37.5mg?

Sweettooth I think you are most likely right, possibly aggravated by other factors like my Mirtazapine reduction and fluctuating hormone levels which apparently makes us more susceptible. Even the allergy specialist said Covid was the most likely cause. I am so sorry to hear you're having such an awful time with it. I'm wondering if it is in fact Estrogen related, or whether the symptoms you're describing are some kind of inflammation/immune response to the booster and then Covid - your symptoms sound very similar to my sister's Long Covid diagnosis. I suppose it's impossible to know, as it seems the two things are so closely linked.

Joziel I've just read that non IGE allergies primarily affect the digestive system so potentially not relevant to you. Here's a bit on the difference between them. I still think it might be worth cutting out individual foods first (starting with dairy and wheat) for say 3 weeks each and seeing if that helps. Most allergy specialists would recommend an elimination diet as a first step - but perhaps you've tried that already?
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/food-allergy/causes/

[joziel]

For me, the waking in the night and palps in the night, isn't related to low estrogen because it wasn't something I had before starting HRT. (None of this was present before starting HRT.)

Before starting HRT, I did have palps in the evenings, but they were the obvious skipped beat palps, not this weird fluttering thing and throbbing. I don't get the skipped beats any longer so the estrogen has fixed those.

I don't remember having these symptoms on the 25mcg patch either. They really started to kick in at 50mcg patch - when my estrogen was only 233nmol, so not high at all. I stayed on the 50 for 7wks and they were still happening a couple times a week when I increased (as instructed) to 75. Then everything went crazy and I got all this even more and freaked out - and reduced to 62.5.

I've now been at 62.5 for almost 6wks and no signs of it stabilising here and going away, either...

[sweettooth]

Thanks Gilla, I had those symptoms pre estrogen, was great on hrt then boom after vaccine.  Does your sister have good spells please?

[Marchlove]

Sorry to hear all of your sad stories with ongoing issues.

Joziel, yes I read that estrogen fluctuates naturally over a 24 hour period, I believe from memory they are at their highest in the morning. Is that what you discovered?

I know first it’s melatonin, then Dhea levels increase for rem sleep, then testosterone early morning.
But not sure about progesterone either?

X

[joziel]

Well last night I randomly forgot to take my progesterone until 4,30am    So seeing I still got all these symptoms, I think it's not caused by the progesterone (I didn't think it was, I've always been fine with progesterone). 

Yes, I found that estrogen is naturally highest in the morning as well when I googled. You could replicate that with gel by putting it on in the morning. Not so with patches...

[Marchlove]

I might give it a go!
I have tried using my progesterone in the morning but that didn’t work out. X

[Gilla999]

Sweettooth I would say my sister has "not so bad" spells and "bloody awful" spells. Her symptoms are primarily high blood pressure, palpitations, headaches, anxiety and what she describes as a constant "buzzing" all over her face and body. Her Raynaud's (which she had very mildly all her life) has also gone crazy since having Covid. When I heard her symptoms i was convinced it was perimenopause and not Covid issues, but her Estrogen blood test on Day 21 came back at 700 so not bad. Apparently the doctor at her long covid clinic says her symptoms are very common among sufferers. Interestingly they are now starting to prescribe HRT for LC sufferers and she is just about to start it.

It sounds like something to do with the virus / vaccine is blocking your Estrogen receptors doesn't it? I wish there was something I could suggest to help

[sweettooth]

Hi Gilla, gosh your dear sister has a lot to deal with!  I certainly agree that hrt will help her so that’s something to hang on to.

Yes my E receptors appear to have been blocked in some way.  I have a ms apt soon so I’m hoping that will move me forward!

I really hope your issues settle soon xxx

[Gilla999]

Apologies for having two threads on connected topics, I wish I could merge them somehow!

So my urticaria started to get worse yesterday and I've woken up with it this morning worse than ever - this despite it having mostly subsided over the last week since the antihistamine regime prescribed by the allergy specialist, which I haven't made any change to.

The only thing I have changed is I switched from Lenzetto to Estradot on Friday, and I'm feeling pretty sure this unwittingly involved an increase in my Estrogen because I generally have felt really good (almost hyper) in myself (which I always do when my Estrogen rises) as well as some other signs of high or rising E that I often get.

I have two choices - I either go back to the Lenzetto or I try dropping to 50mcg Estradot, to see if that helps. If the urticaria subsides with either of these then I know for sure that it is being caused by high Estrogen - which would be despite me feeling I need that level to feel well - I have tried many times to drop it in the past and I felt horrendous. It would also be strange because back in September from blood tests I know my Estrogen level was circa 1,200 (too high) where as it's about 800 now. The only thing I can think is that I already know my own Estrogen dropped considerably between December and April (either naturally or as a result of the vaccine and Covid, the timings could be a coincidence) and so I had to increase my HRT accordingly from 2 sprays to the 4 sprays I am/was on. Maybe my body doesn't like the ratio of being supplemented so much by Estrogen, I don't know... stabbing in the dark!

I think it make sense to switch back to Lenzetto for now and see if that calms things down - if it does, then I think I've found the culprit (too high Estrogen)....

[Marchlove]

Morning Gilla

I think that makes sense and at least you’ll know.
Certainly my body can only tolerate low doses of estrogen so avoiding histamine reactions.
It might be overtime with your new antihistamine regime in place you will be able to increase again.
Do you take probiotics? Seeking Health do a couple that are especially aimed at people with histamine intolerance. Might be worth looking into them with your allergy specialist.
I was reading an article online today saying that the gut micro biome in people with long covid is compromised. This is interesting as it’s something my previous nutritionist said to me in a recent email exchange and that I should concentrate on repairing my leaky gut.
Sorry a bit off topic but think it’s worth flagging up.

Good luck Gilla, it does seem you’re onto something here x

[Gilla999]

Funnily enough Marchlove I'm currently waiting for the results of a complex stool test by Healthpath I did which was very expensive at £389 but is something I've been wanting to do for a long time with the chronic constipation I've also been suffering with. It tests for everything under the sun and I should get those results this week. (I also ordered a Cortisol and DHEA test from them as I saw they offered one - haven't done it yet though!)

I used to take Probiotics but stopped when the Urticaria arrived as I was trying to eliminate things - will definitely look into the ones you suggest. Have you had leaky gut confirmed? I was reading up about that. Interesting link on Long Covid too - would you mind sharing the link?

I could be completely off the mark but after seeing this massive increase in my Urticaria and the only change has been changing/increasing my HRT I just have this feeling that the Estrogen could be to blame - either on its own because I've "needed" to increase the dose or because I'm not getting enough Progsterone in my system to balance it out.

[joziel]

Gilla, have you read about estrogen and histamine intolerance - and the interaction between the two? Basically, increasing estrogen also increases histamine. I can't remember how or why    But I guess if you already have a tendency towards histamine intolerance but your body is usually able to clear the histamine, increasing estrogen might just tip you over the edge and lead to symptoms.

Are you trying a low histamine diet? This is the official list: https://www.mastzellaktivierung.info/downloads/foodlist/21_FoodList_EN_alphabetic_withCateg.pdf  But for £2.50 you can download an app for your phone with all the foods listed on it which is way easier.

Taking anti-histamines whilst still eating foods high in histamine might not work. Here is a pdf from the Newson clinic: https://balance-menopause.com/uploads/2021/09/Histamine-Intolerance-1.pdf

Which is all to say - decreasing estrogen might help your histamine symptoms, but your body in other ways might still need/want that estrogen (ie - you feel bad when you decrease in other ways). So you might need to reduce your histamine intake and help your body to clear it, without reducing estrogen. That means a low histamine diet and there are some supplements which help.

I am about to try the low histamine diet in a few days (still finishing up some other foods and getting low histamine ones in!). I think your symptoms with itching etc sound much more classic histamine intolerance than mine do, so I reckon you would see good results.... and might not need to reduce estrogen...

[Gilla999]

OMG just read the Louise Newsom link and it's like she's written it about me 

As always Louise Newsom's advice is thorough and practical. Thank you for this Joziel - I think it makes sense to switch back to the Lenzetto and at least try to get to the place I was in a few days ago (where I still had wheals but wasn't aware of them during the daytime) and then start on the low histamine diet. It can't hurt to try.