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[EllaAurora]

Hello ladies,
seeking your advice and experiences as I'm likely heading towards a change of regime which, frankly, makes me terrified  -even though I've felt very bad on the current regime.

I got prescription now to move to Estradot 50 patch, as I haven't been able to find a balance with Oestrogel. While the gel has sorted out most of the physical symptoms that suddenly became overwhelming in March (adrenaline surges, tachycardia, arrhythmias, insomnia), mentally I've felt really bad with anxiety, mood swings and just generally not being able to relax even for a minute -feeling like super wired all the time (except when sleeping which I can thankfully do with the support of Utrogestan).

It feels like the gel is absorbing too quickly and I get a peak 1-2 hours after applying it (often feeling the 'rush' from it and couple of times even getting a full anxiety attack after the gel). I'm assuming the anxiety and mood issues arise from the constant fluctuation of estradiol. The hope is now with the Estradot patch that I'd get a more even absorption.

I know we are all different but it would be so helpful to hear your experiences from switching from gel to patch. Do you feel better with patch and what to expect generally. Any issues e.g. with adhesion. All experiences and support so welcome!!

Thanks so much ladies! xx

[juliemargaret]

Oh my goodness - were the same aren’t we!!!! I’m constantly wired and realised last night Ella that the teatime application of my second x2 pumps may be keeping me awak as I’m all wired and jittery in bed and waking not feeling well with migraine too!!!! I’m getting patches next week 50mg Estrodot! I’m also nervous very much!! In meantime have to decide how to cope whilst waiting as could be middle next week by time my go gets around to prescribing ! I feel awful. Have you still been applying your gel

[Nas]

I tried thr gel for 18 months and hated the stuff. I was wired, jittery and amxious all the time.

I then switched to the patch, much calmer, but started bleeding! Bleeding got too much, so I swapped back to the gel.
Same thing, jittery and anxious.

So, have reverted back the patch and am paying to see a private specialist in 2 weeks time, to see what adjustments can be made re the progesterone part, to see if the bleeding can be controlled somehow.

Trial and error comes to mind, with a shed load of patience.

I really want the patch to work minus the bleed as I personally feel more balanced with a continous dose of 0.

Best of luck.

[EllaAurora]

Oh my goodness - were the same aren’t we!!!! I’m constantly wired and realised last night Ella that the teatime application of my second x2 pumps may be keeping me awak as I’m all wired and jittery in bed and waking not feeling well with migraine too!!!! I’m getting patches next week 50mg Estrodot! I’m also nervous very much!! In meantime have to decide how to cope whilst waiting as could be middle next week by time my go gets around to prescribing ! I feel awful. Have you still been applying your gel

Hi Margaret, sounds indeed very similar! I haven't been able to understand why I'm reacting to the gel this way, especially as initially it worked nicely for me. When I started last year, I managed with 1 pump and had no reactions. Then I got additional meno symptoms and tried increase the gel and suddenly started getting these adverse reactions and it feels all the time oestrogen is either too low, or too high, but never quite stable. 
The mental symptoms are the worst, strangely the physical ones are being controlled quite well now despite the rollercoaster.
I've still been applying the gel, but intend to try the patch in the next coming days. I needed to again cut back the gel and during recent days have only applied 1.5 pumps. Really tiring process, hopefully one day we'll report here some success.
Good luck to you & let us know how you get on!

[juliemargaret]

Hi Ella and Nas! Thank you for responding ! Oh nas - I’m sure Ella will agree - this is a relief to onow I’m not alone nor imagining it not overreacting and that. I really DO feel unwell on this gel !!! I do hope the patches work again for you Nas. They will! Maybe the bleed was a once off and won’t happen again next time? I do hope it all settles! Can I ask how many pumps you were on previously of gel? I’m On 4 as didnt feel amazing  on 2 and 3 and I split them 2 morn and 2 teatime but noticed it seems after the teatime application a few hours after and bedtime I feel awful wired and jittery and bad headache and have been waking with same !!! I reduced today to 3 pumps - not sure if the  right thing but was either that or stop altogether which didn’t want to do in case worse! Either 4 pumps was too much or the evening application was not good for me but either way I don’t feel well and know somethings wrong. I feel like I’m feeding my body more of something not suiting it!  I’m a bit apprehensive I still took a pump just earlier and again evening and may start to feel wired again bedtime and not sleep and wake with migraine but I felt so stuck and didn’t want to make too any changes too fast!! I will see how I am tomorrow.
Ella - are you on 4 pumps yes? When and where are you applying x

[EllaAurora]

I tried thr gel for 18 months and hated the stuff. I was wired, jittery and amxious all the time.

I then switched to the patch, much calmer, but started bleeding! Bleeding got too much, so I swapped back to the gel.
Same thing, jittery and anxious.

So, have reverted back the patch and am paying to see a private specialist in 2 weeks time, to see what adjustments can be made re the progesterone part, to see if the bleeding can be controlled somehow.

Trial and error comes to mind, with a shed load of patience.

I really want the patch to work minus the bleed as I personally feel more balanced with a continous dose of 0.

Best of luck.

Hi Nas, sorry to hear about your struggle. Your experience with the gel sounds very similar to mine, after I needed to start increasing the dose due to new meno symptoms appearing. During the time I managed with 1 pump it was fine, since then I haven't had a normal stable day in 4 months
Did your doctor ever have any possible explanation to your reaction to the gel? I've mentioned this now to 2 different gynaes, but neither of them have really had any explanation to this. I guess its just that some people are super sensitive to this stuff and especially the fluctuations.

Regarding the bleed -are you taking progesterone continuously? Good to hear in any case that your experience with patch is more positive otherwise, so as long as the bleed is sorted you're going to be OK!

By the way, when you moved to the patch after gel, how quickly did you notice the difference? Did you have any issues with adjusting the dose or you got the right patch dose from the start?

Thanks for your reply, really appreciate it! And wishing you good luck to the specialist visit soon! xx

[EllaAurora]

Hi Ella and Nas! Thank you for responding ! Oh nas - I’m sure Ella will agree - this is a relief to onow I’m not alone nor imagining it not overreacting and that. I really DO feel unwell on this gel !!! I do hope the patches work again for you Nas. They will! Maybe the bleed was a once off and won’t happen again next time? I do hope it all settles! Can I ask how many pumps you were on previously of gel? I’m On 4 as didnt feel amazing  on 2 and 3 and I split them 2 morn and 2 teatime but noticed it seems after the teatime application a few hours after and bedtime I feel awful wired and jittery and bad headache and have been waking with same !!! I reduced today to 3 pumps - not sure if the  right thing but was either that or stop altogether which didn’t want to do in case worse! Either 4 pumps was too much or the evening application was not good for me but either way I don’t feel well and know somethings wrong. I feel like I’m feeding my body more of something not suiting it!  I’m a bit apprehensive I still took a pump just earlier and again evening and may start to feel wired again bedtime and not sleep and wake with migraine but I felt so stuck and didn’t want to make too any changes too fast!! I will see how I am tomorrow.
Ella - are you on 4 pumps yes? When and where are you applying x

Hi Margaret, sounds like the 4 pumps was too much for you, and probably good to reduce. Though as I understood also the 3 didn't really help you at all. Its all so confusing 

The maximum I've had was 3 pumps (2 evening/1 morning), but that was clearly too much and I quickly went down. But then again the lower dose doesn't control symptoms. A few nights after I reduced woke up again at 3 am  I've also tried splitting am/pm but applying twice a day didn't seem to work for my system either -felt super wired after the morning dose with anxiety lasting into afternoon.
Really hoping the gel would work better -for both of us!! Take care xx

[juliemargaret]

Hi again Ella! Yes - even 3 in the past didn’t work. Time for me to get off the gel and the patch! Only think is my Meno doc said to start on 50mg then can increase if need be  and we’re gonna try Estrodot.  Feels like going back to square one and a waste of 8 long and not great weeks on this gel 🤷🏻‍♀️
I hope you too find your balance! X

[EllaAurora]

Thanks Margaret, hope you're feeling better today!

I moved yesterday evening to Estradot 50 mcg Patch and will report progress here, as it may be of interest to others too.
Transitioning from gel to patch was uneventful and I didn't get any reactions (like the ones I got when trying to increase the gel).

I did wake up once during the night, but managed to get back to sleep quickly. In the morning perhaps felt a bit jittery and waking up with fast heartbeat, but not feeling anxiety, just somehow super alert. Compared to most of the mornings lately, this has been a really good one. But of course its Day 1, so way too early to draw any conclusions as it could just simply be a coincidence. 

Wishing all ladies a lovely Sunday. xx

[Kathleen]

Hello Ella Aurora.

I will be following your story with interest as I am wondering if my ongoing mood issues are due to fluctuations caused by Oestrogel. I am post meno and split my dose between morning and bedtime applications.

When I mentioned patches to my meno doctor recently she said it was best to stick to my current regime especially as the gel was body identical.  My view is that if something isn't working then changing to a different product is always worth a try so I am thinking of raising the subject again.

I take it that your patch is Oestrogen only and that you are still using Utrogestan for the progesterone part of your HRT?

I'm pleased to see that your first morning has been positive and I hope you see more improvement soon.
As a sufferer of the jitters and anxiety I know exactly how you feel and how exhausting these symptoms can be.

Take care.

K.

[EllaAurora]

Hi Kathleen,
thanks for your reply.
Yes, I'm using Oestrogen only patch, as I wished to continue with Utrogestan which has worked well for me -especially helping with the sleep.
The estradiol in the patch is also body identical, so its a good idea to discuss with your doctor about the possibility to evaluate other options, if the gel is not working for you. There is also another gel option (Sandrena), which I understand from other ladies has a bit different consistency, so maybe that could be an option too?

It's a tricky balance, on one hand we should give the existing regime time to settle and not make too quick changes, but on the other, if it's not working then at some point we have to just try something different. I got to the point with Oestrogel where I simply couldn't find a balance. It felt like there was a high oestrogen peak 1-2 hours after applying, but then the dose was wearing off too quickly and I couldn't get this fixed even by splitting the dose. My own gut feeling is (of course I cannot know for sure) that it was these constant fluctuations that were causing the trouble.
It that indeed was the case, then the Patch should help, but time will tell. 

Take care and let us know how you get on! xx

[Nas]

Hi,
It's been a real rollercoaster if I am brutally honest (and still is!).
I was on 4/5 pumps of the gel daily with nightly progesterone. The only thing it relieved, was the flushes.
I felt wired and irritated the whole time I was on the gel and this would last until the end of the day, when I started to calm down.
I hated the faff with the application and drying, as I had the school run to do and get to work by 8.30am.

So, after 18 months, I made the switch to the patch. Not much change for a few months sadly, then I started bleeding! Since September 2020, I think I have had about 7 horrid bleeds. All tests were done and nothing untoward found. Gynae said it was a side effect of the patch and suggested coming off the patch to see if things calm down. I tried to come off the patch, boom, fell down the hole of gloom!

Currently, waiting for an appointment to see a private specialist to see if the progesterone part can be altered to help with the bleeding.

I have had some good days on the patch to be fair, so it may be worth persevering with.

Trial and error, over and over, until you strike that balance

xxxx

[EllaAurora]

Hi Nas,
Yes, it is a rollercoaster which seems to all the time come up with a new negative turn or surprise.

I have to admit, when I thought about menopause a few years ago, I really wasn't prepared for anything like this   
Also, given the symptoms are so hard, there's still a worry looming in my mind whether there is something else wrong with my body. Like, I'm questioning can this REALLY be 'just menopause'. Though when reading the posts here, it's pretty clear there are so many of us to whom this is a very hard time.

Sometimes I'm wondering, what would happen if I'd just come off HRT altogether, as it feels that while HRT is sorting out some issues, it's causing new issues instead. But then again, I'm not yet at the point to stop as I'd be terrified about the returning symptoms, as well as the longer run consequences of low oestrogen. So I guess its just to hang in there and take it day by day.

Let us know what the private specialist will tell and in the meanwhile take good care of yourself! xx

[Nas]

Given that there are oestrogen receptors in pretty much every part of the female body, I think it’s safe to say that a lot of how we feel, can be attributed to the menopause.

However, thyroid can also play havoc and the two often play havoc at the same time!

Many a time I gave thought about coming off HRT as the last two years have been
nothing but bother in truth. But then the low mood descends and that’s enough to slap on the gel or stick on a patch!

Day by day is about all we can do right now.

Best of luck to you too xxxx

[juliemargaret]

Hi Ella! How are you doing on the estradot? I also got it! I am though on 50mg and will work up if need to. Only applied it yesterday morning and so far been ok but bit tired! How about you? X