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[ccariad]

Hi All  I'm a new to the forum , but have been a regular reader and find the information and sharing of personal experience really interesting.  So I'm hoping some of you would be able to shed some light on my recent experiences  and share your wisdom with me.   Here is a condensed version of my history :  I had an emergency hysterectomy and BSO at 21; due to the extent of the ENDo I was not allowed oestrogen straight away;  from around 23 I was prescribed Oestrogen and have been pretty stable up until the last 2 /3 years, I am now 51. I was on Climival 1mg twice a day but when this was withdrawn I tried patches estroderm 100mcg.  Shortly after starting I started having accelerated hair loss/ thinning ; night sweats, waking with palpitations and subsequent insomnia. I do a great deal of high energy cardiovascular exercise and through researching found out that I was probably oestrogen dumping- when your exercising intensively accelerated transfer of oestrogen from the patchwhich then rendered the patch 'empty' for the subsequent days until changed and it would all happen again; So I put it down to this - big peaks and trough etc.  I changed to oestrogel. This improved minimally in the short term, during lock down I would say my exercise has increased. Recently I have had an increase in issues with sudden waking/palpitations/feeling I cannot breath and then remaining awake for hours - feeling wired but not anxious . I have no worries or anxieties, not churning things over etc. I just cannot sleep. I believe this is cortisol spikes. I have tried using the gel both morning and night - divided doses etc. and increasing the dose to 4 pumps a day. I am also on a small dose of tesogel which I apply in the morning.  I have never been prescribed progesterone by I am wondering if the increased symptoms I am now getting could be due to progesterone deficient sleep apnoea?  IF so would urogestan 100mg be a valid and safe option to try  - any one on it  post hysterectomy - I've read various good and bad reports . Or should just keep upping the dose of my oestrogen/trying new spray lenzetto (GP happily prescribed ) ?  Any thought? Thanks Cath

[Floo36]

I get the very same symptoms and don’t sleep, even taking sleep help I wake up constantly wide awake, tired but wired.  I now get drowsy for sleep but get jolted back to be awake over and over then no chance along with all the usual menopause symptoms in the daytime.  I use utrogestan and it doesn’t help me sleep but it does help others it may be worth a try.

[Flan747]

I have been there and swap and changed my HRT 4 times giving them a real good go! Things only changed for me when I changed my diet! For me it was all about blood sugars spiking! Not perfect bu a whole lot better!

[ccariad]

Hi all

Thanks for the replies, apologies for not responding sooner - I couldn't navigate my way back to the post!  By way of update, I have started Lenzetto and it is much easier to apply and dries very quickly which are all positive.  Sleep wise, verdict is still out.  I started with 2 pumps divided 730am/730pm and managed to stay asleep or get back to sleep up until 4am!  The last two nights I get to the 4 am jolt awake and have applied another pump - which then  fairly quickly results in getting back to sleep.  As the instructions say apply once daily, today I have applied three sprays and will not dose this evening to see what affect (if any) that has on my waking.  If anyone has any other idea's or experiences I would love to hear from them.  It seems that hijacked sleep is a common symptom - for me- the strange thing is that it has started happening only since I have been on the Transdermal route - Any of you on oestrogen only oral tablets  with a little testosterone boost having sleeping issues ?  Or is it only those on the transdermal route? Thanks Cath

[Angelasurrey]

 @ccariad
How are things? You post really resonated with me as I’m having terrible sleek issues and the palpitations. Are you seeing any improvements? Thanks

[sheila99]

Palpitations can be a symptom of too much oestrogen as well as too little.

[Polpringle]

Palpitations and the cortisol spike feeling in a morning relates to to much estrogen for me. I was on 4 pumps happily bird increased my exercise and dropping down to 2 helped a lot but still not perfect

[ccariad]

Hi Angela

Sorry for my delay in reply - sorry to hear you are struggling with the insomnia and palpitations.  I am pleased to say that I have had an improvement in my sleep pattern.  I am 100% sure now that my exercise regime had an impact on the absorption of the oestrogen from patch/gel/spray, the raise in SHBG and for the patch sweat sitting under the patch.  I requested to go back onto oestrogen valarate (Climival has been withdrawn) now on Prognova 2mg which I take between 10 and 11 am with breakfast; that sorted the palpitations but I was still having some night sweats waking around 2.30/3 am so I added a 100mcg patch, initially because I had a few left; it worked so asked the GP to add to my repeat and they did.  I take the patch off for my exercise hour and reaply it after a shower. In the main I am now able to sleep through to around 5/6am.  If I do wake to go to loo I am more able to get back of to sleep quickly.  The patch alone or prognova tablets alone were not enough for me. Ive been on HRT for many years after Hysterectomy and BSO in 1990/91 and fortunate to have GP's who listen and accommodate HRT changes.....as one said to me on the subject : ' Its your body and you know your body best'.If you have a good GP who will listen and give you a trial of treatment give it a go.  If they are resistant try to get an appointment (private will be around £150) with a gynecologist/menopause clinic....life is too short to suffer and chronic insomnia make life miserable and evidence suggests makes you more susceptible to a multitude of life limiting conditions. Wishing you all the very best and may 2022 bring you peaceful restorative sleep again. Kind regards Ccariad

[CLKD]

Well done you and many thanks for the update  .  It really can be Trial and Error!

[Angelasurrey]

Ccariad thanks for sharing. Interesting about the exercise element!x

[GabbyP]

Had same sleep issue, for more than two years just 2 hours a night of sleep.  Could go to bed fine and fall asleep but then couple of hours in it was as if someone rang a bell in my head and I would wake up totally and that's be it for the night.  Tried various things including medication which made me feel like a zombie all day but didn't help me sleep!!! but dietitian seems to have made the difference - carbs before bedtime!  Had a massive pasta dish the night I saw her (had previously been eating low carb to try and lose weight/belly) and slept through the night for first time in four years! Now ensuring I have something carb rich before bed (even a hot chocolate works) and sleeping much better.  Might be worth a try?