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[CrispyChick]

I've seen many comments of people saying the pill stopped working to control symptoms as they moved towards meno...

Ladies, I've chickened out of the pill swap for another day.

Hardly slept last night (but I only get that about once a month and may or may not be connected. So no biggie). Not grumpy this morn, so taken pill 2 hours later, see if its more of a metabolising issue.

I've got terrible indigestion /stomach issue. Had it on and off the last week, but it's been bad. Had it severely last time on mini pill... So I suspect prog maybe... Whilhich is also quite dominant in microgynon.

On the plus side my head/nose feels a little better. Woo hoo. Turned the central heating off in the bedroom... Its the only new change. Fingers crossed its not hormonally connected... But too early to tell. Plus, it's been replaced by the stomach pain 🤣🤣🤣. I honestly could cry!!!

Be so interesting to hear of your results gilla. Everythibg tells us our hormones should be flat on the pill... But it just doesn't feel the case!!! X

[Alicess]

Gilla, I see, I didn't know you where using your test- results for this purpose.

Women have higher circulating testosterone levels then estrogen levels. The testosterone is being converted to estrogen by a process called aromatase. So a part of our estrogen comes from this conversion. Testosterone on it's own also has beneficiail properties for women besides libido.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378512213000121

Most of my live I've been on Diana 35 which contains 35 mg ethinylestradiol and a potent anti- androgenic progestin cyproterone. Even when I was young I experienced hot flashes, night sweats vaginale dryness and a lot of other menopause symptoms. Also had facial hair/ excessieve body hair despite surpression of testosterone. Then my GP put me on Microgynon 30 when I was 48, which has a lower EE but a more androgenic progestin and all of the symptoms including  facial / body hair vanished. A year later GP put me on Yaz and I experienced hot flashes, night sweats etc.again.
That's why I'm wondering if surpressing testosterone to much is one of the reasons. I don't think BCP surpresses our hormones fully and something is still happening in the background. It also depends on the individual, like with HRT we all react differently.

I don't think exogenous testosterone acts the same way as our own testosterone though. There are more DHT receptors on the skin where we put the T-gel and conversion to DHT is more likely. And it is not clear yet if exogenous T will convert to estrogen in women. If does in men though.

Alicess X

[Gilla999]

Thanks Alice, that is so helpful. This is the kind of level of information I want from gynaes and struggle to get!

The reason it piqued my interest is that I know from when I had two sets of hormone tests about 3 and 4 years ago (before all my problems started, for a separate reason) my natural testosterone levels were higher than the normal range. I never had any of the classic symptoms of high testosterone so it didn't concern me. I'm just wondering if my persistent symptoms of night sweats and middle-of-the-night insomnia that started a year ago could be something to do with my testosterone levels coming down, as you mention (particularly as I keep being told my estrogen levels are within normal range).

Food for thought anyway! Really interesting - thank you!

[Gilla999]

Crispy I can massively empathise with the desire to want to make a change in order to fix it (three days ago I was on the verge of switching) but like you I am resisting making any changes for now. I know it's been much longer for you than me but I still have a hunch that it takes longer than they say for your body to adjust to hormones, whether in HRT or the Pill. When you're feeling really crappy all the time it is hard not to want to try changing though!

[Alicess]

Gilla, I think it's wise to also do a bloodtest for SHBG. If your SHBG is high then there will be less testosterone for your body to use, even with higher levels of T. Don't rely to much on bloodtests, they can vary greatly, not only from day to day but also during the day and other processes and sample size can interfere with the outcome.

Crispy, I'm sorry it's been such a bumpy road for you. I understand you want to stay on Microgynon as with  changing you will have to go through the stress, the side- effects and ' not knowing' all over again. There shoud be a possibility to tailor- make the BCP..  Choosing the amount of ethinylestradiol and progestin ourselves ( within limits). I hope it will settle X

[Gilla999]

Thank you Alice, I've never had that tested before so will do.

Ladies I think I'm going to switch to Qlaira. I fully realise I'm contradicting myself and going back and forth. I just don't feel very good on Yasmin - my boobs are gigantic and so painful, it's like carrying around two water melons on your chest, the constipation is terrible, I've been getting continuous headaches which I never normally get (may not be Pill related though), I've gained half a stone. And more importantly than any of that, the sleeping/night sweats situation isn't any better than it was on Zoely. I really feel this artificial sense with  Yasmin that I didn't feel with Zoely. I am nervous because I think switching from EE to Estriadol is likely to cause night sweats and insomnia, but not sure I can avoid that.

My only issue with Qlaira is the prog dominant days, which I suspect aren't going to be great for me. I hear that topping up with gel is an option which I'll probably do. I would have liked to have Climidien but it's not available in the UK from what I can make out (Estradiol and the same Prog as in Qlaira but at a steady dose).

Trying to work out whether I should leave the switch until after my rhythm test results. If they come back as fluctuations still happening underneath on Yasmin then I suppose there is logic in waiting to see if that would settle - I just overall don't feel great on it. I think if I did, I'd be fine with seeing if it settled. Any thoughts/opinions? Crispy and Scampi how are you doing today? xx

[CrispyChick]

I think you should wait until after test results. Then u can make a really informed decision. When will u get results? Did u finish testing?

I know it's hard. Totally feel your pain. Defo sounds like estrogen side affects. Boobs and headaches both major issues for me with gederal.

Throwing u a curve ball... How about trying eloine. Same prog, lower estrogen??? You'll be more settled in the prog avd the drop to 20mg might solve the boobs avd headaches. Then reassess  everything else???

I'm gradually moving microgynon to evening to see if that helps with the grumps. Defo not grumpy at mo and not taken it yet. It feels like the 4 day brwak has caused a reset. I had this with the other pills too.

Head OK. I'm screaming still. Stomach awful. But it did dawn in me I took an awful lot of migraine avd paracetomol and nurofen tablets over those 7 days... Nurofen in particular could have inflamed my stomach. So I'm still playing the watch avd see game...

[Gilla999]

Hmm I hadn't thought of that! It is something to consider I suppose. My thought process on Qlaira was:

- the prog is more natural
- the estrogen is more natural
- my gynae said she'd had a lot of success with it
- I can top it up with oestrogel if I want to
- you can take Qlaira till you're 55

Even though I'm aware Alice has mentioned the estrogen isn't necessarily strong enough to suppress your own hormones, I do wonder if the phased approach will help (plus with the top up option).

What doesn't seem to make any sense is for me to be having the obvious high estrogen side effects but still also having night sweats and middle of the night insomnia. I can't help but wonder if there is other crap contributing now - be that psychological or my other meds or something.

Test results would be in about 3-4 weeks.
Trying to work out what they could show that would make me ok with staying on Yasmin. It's so hard to know isn't it, whether staying and waiting to see or cutting your losses and trying something else is the right approach.

I did think it sounded like you'd almost been reset on the Microgynon with the rage. Good idea to try in the eves! Is the stomach pain acid reflux in the chest or a different kind of main? Did you say you'd had it related to hormones before? Nurofen can 100% irritate your stomach, especially if you don't normally take it often.

Thanks for the feedback Crispy, I really appreciate it xx

[Gilla999]

Right, I've done a complete 180 

After doing some more reading about Qlaira I have decided to bite the bullet and go back to trying HRT. I've read that younger women need higher doses and when I tried it previously (for all of 10 days) I was only taking the lowest possible dose so I don't think I've ever given it a proper shot and I'm really not feeling great on Yasmin and loathe to keep putting synthetic hormones in as not only has it not helped the original problem I've now got a whole load of other problems. I've got an appointment with my gynae to discuss it and will go for the highest dose I can. Wish me luck!

[CrispyChick]

Hi gilla

I totally understand your reasoning for looking at qlaira. The idea of topping up estrogen with gel, sounds promising.

I'm assuming you have every symptom every day??? That's why I decided not to jump yet as the grumpiness for example, is not the same every day avd I do think the 4 day break reset me 🙄

I guess I'm just trying to say, is it worth 1 more month to see if you bloods give you an insight? I would seriously consider dropping to 20mg eloine. Your body should he used to the prog, so you're only reducing the estrogen. For me, in the early days of these pill trials, high estrogen gave me painful boobs and migraines. I dropped to a 20mg of same brand and those side affects literally went overnight. Might be worth a try for month?

Qlaira will still be an option then, but at least you'd have ruled the lower dose mainline pill out (or in, even better).

I do doubt it will solve your other probs if the high estrogen one isn't. Although, I would say at least one of the 30mg pills I tried last year actually gave me night sweats. I don't have them at all on microgynon and I don't get them on nothing, but 30mg millinette gave me them and I felt poisoned on it, which I asummed was too much estrogen... Its so mind boggling.

My stomach feels like a bad case of gastritis. Knawing pain in actual stomach, burping, bloated and also on/off pain lower in abdomen with bloating. I'm hoping it's an acute case, possibly causes by ibuprofen (which I do usually avoid, but the migraines were killing me!). Trying to eat clean and little...

Yes, I had a, terrible case of this ongoing whilst on cerazette. Ended up with endoscopy and on meds. Hit myself off the meds about Sept... Really don't want all that again. But I do believe prog can be a cause 🙄.

Just taken my microgynon.

Head feeling a bit off, so just steamed for 2nd time today. Fingers crossed.

Let me know what u decide...

[CrispyChick]

Posted at same time! 

OK... I do wish u luck 😁.

I can understand if the pill is not helping your original problems. It defo helps mine.  Even, for example, the grumpiness I'm getting, it's not as bad as my 10 days of horrific pmt. Just not ideal. But it's grumpiness, not low mood and extreme sensitivity. In fact, I've noticed I'm not over sensitive to anything or anyone now. 🤣

What happened in those previous 10 days???

[Gilla999]

Thank you lovely! No idea if I'm doing the right thing but my reasoning is even if it doesn't fix the original problem, the original problem is still here now, so at least I would have less side effects than I'm getting with the synthetic hormones from the Pill. Qlaira would have been the other option but then I come back to it probably not being strong enough for what I need which is what has left me with HRT (and is what the gynae suggested would be my next step).

I'm really glad it has helped your original problems as at least that's one positive! The stomach situation sounds awful.. can you take anything over the counter for it like omeprazole? I had a similar thing a few months ago after needing to use a prescrition anti inflammatory (nitro something?) and it was hideous... felt like I'd drunk a bottle of vinegar... but it did settle eventually. I think I lived off porridge and Complan for a bit!! Sending you lots of good vibes xxx

[CrispyChick]

Gilla. I think if your gynae suggests it... Then it's a good idea. When do you start???

What happened when you tried 10 days before???

And yes!!! Feel like I've drunk vinegar. I can take it, as long as it subsides. I had it months and months previously... Fingers crossed the ibuprofen caused it. I'm managing to keep migraines away with regular nose steaming - I think. But I'm still not convinced I won't have to swap pill.

[Gilla999]

When I tried it for 10 days in November I just still had my night sweats and middle of the night insomnia throughout the 10 days so gave up. It was the 10 days right before my period which is exactly when I would have naturally had all the problems so because it didn't immediately "fix" it, and I read about the Pill fully suppressing hormones I switched to Zoely. Interestingly during the 10 days on HRT I had a proper hormone blood test and my Estrogen level even when on 50mg Estradot only came back at the mid normal range for that time in my cycle. So it makes me wonder what it would have been without the HRT. And it is a very different picture to the previous test i'd had done a year earlier (eu naturel / without any hormones) when the reading was 5 times higher (which is why I had been continually getting the big painful boobs). So I think it definitely demonstrates that I've had a steep climb down of Estrogen over the last 12 months which is what I think is causing all the issues for me.

I'm going to have a 5 day break from Yasmin and then start on the sequential HRT at a high dose (Lenzetto, 3 sprays) plus vaginal utrogestan. Not looking forward to the rebound of either the 5 day break or moving from a strong estrogen to a less strong one (estrogen withdrawal...) but I'll have to just ride it out. I've managed to get an appointment with Newson health in July (!) too. God the amount of money I've spent on just trying to live a normal life!!

That "vinegar" feeling is horrendous - it's like something triggers it and then it becomes really inflamed. It will subside I think, just try to eat really bland and boring foods. Good news hopefully on the migraines - at least you know you have an option there with swapping to Eloine xx

[CrispyChick]

Good luck gilla. If you felt fine on hrt, but it didn't give u instant relief, then defo go for it!!!

I felt totally poisoned on my 10 say trial. Which was estrogen alone I was taking at that point... So I know its not for me... Yet. If u felt no side affects, defo a good call...

Keep us updated 😘

How's everyone else doing?