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[GetStuffedPeri]

Hi Karine

I remember you from a discussion I started previously.  My wife is the same age and has been period free for the same time as you (literally - on the money!).  She had been reluctant to take HRT for years (7 years of suffering TERRIBLY - we're talking job ending, relationship straining, awful physical effects etc) as she was terrified that if she took it and then stopped, she would go "back to square one".  It was the flushes that changed her mind eventually - after yet another 2 consecutive days (every week) of being bed ridden due to excessive flushes and sweats, she decided to give it a go.  The longer she went period free, the more the flushes increased.  We had a consultation with a great GP who agreed to prescribe her some patches (the lowest risk form of it).  They reduced her flushes and sweats within days.  Honestly.  I know you haven't had a hot flush yet and I hope that you don't, but the chances are, I'm afraid, that you eventually will and it may be at that point that you change your mind about HRT.  The health benefits in a woman of your age massively outweigh the risks (obviously unless you're severely overweight/smoke/history of cancer in the family etc).  I completely agree with you that HRT will "stop" the body from adjusting itself to lower levels of our hormones - and we were absolutely desperate to get through this without HRT, but when it came down to it, her quality of life was SO poor that it seemed the only option.  We had tried various regimes of supplements etc for 6 years - managed to get her hair to stop falling out but apart from that it just wasn't cutting it (although god knows how worse she may have felt without all of her vitamins). 

Yes - the decline in hormones is a natural thing, but remember that back in the day, women would usually die not long after menopause!  We're now living for longer and taking some hormones will just (hopefully) ensure that we do so whilst feeling well and healthy. 

It is such a personal journey and I genuinely hope that you start to feel better really soon without the need to take something that concerns you so much.   The decision to go on HRT is so massive and for a lot of women. 

I wish you all the very best 

[CLKD]

Also women would be pregnant more often so hormones would be performing 'naturally' instead of gaps between babies.  The woman is after all designed for regular pregnancies as well as breast feeding so the body was protected differently.

Now there is choice as well as women choosing not to have babies so early .......... which will impact on overall health.

Some don't require HRT, others benefit.  It can be to ease symptoms until, or used for ever.

[KarineT]

Hi GetStuffedPeri,

So your wife is probably still peri like me.  I have to wait and see what happens comes January.  If I don't get a period before then, then that will mean that I've reached the menopause unless my ovaries have a last fling and I get another one.  I did a test called Menocheck last February and this was just afterI my final  menstrual period (maybe).  The test revealed that my ovarian reserve was quite low.  Maybe this test was accurate enough which means that I will reach the menopause sooner rather than later.  I was told that if the ovarian reserve is low, this means that the menopause is not far away.  Now after what you've told me, I'm concerned that that things might get worse for me but I do hope that this won't be the case.  If your wife had to give up work because of this, it terrible and I'm sorry to hear that the menopause can cause do many issues.  If I couldn't go to work anymore I would be severely affected like most of us.  Ufortunately, I don't think the welfare system recognise menopause-related stress as a disability.  Not being able to work because of it is quite serious to me.  I hope your wife gets on with the HRT though.

Thanks

Karine

[KarineT]

Paz23, how long did you do CBT for?  Did you go privately or was it on the NHS?  What made you decide to do it? Do you have a tendency to think negative? Why do you think it didn't work? In my own case I had a terrible childhood and the memory might be embedded in my subconscious mind adding to this hormonal rubbish.  I do have a tendency to think negative though.  Because of my environment, I've never really thought that there's always a thinking alternative.

[cityrat]

Menopause symptoms cannot be a forever thing.  There's no way the body will never adjust itself to a lower level of oestrogen and progesterone as a decline in these hormones is inevitable and natural.

Yes a decline is these hormones is inevitable and natural. But menopause symptoms can indeed be a forever thing. Vaginal atrophy does not improve on its own and can lead to health problems that go beyond the sexual. Osteoporosis is progressive and a leading cause of death among elderly women. I know 80 year olds who still get hot flashes. The body "adjusting itself" to a lower level of oestrogen and progesterone isn't really saying anything. The body adjusts itself as it will, but the results are not always worth tolerating.

[Wrensong]

Unfortunately true & well said cityrat.

[KarineT]

Cityrat, I see what you're saying but surely, it cannot possibly be true for every single woman on the planet.  If some of us are not on HRT that doesn't mean that we are all going to get horrible diseases and die from them.

[cityrat]

Cityrat, I see what you're saying but surely, it cannot possibly be true for every single woman on the planet.  If some of us are not on HRT that doesn't mean that we are all going to get horrible diseases and die from them.

Yes, of course. It is absolutely true that every woman is different and has a different experience and a different way of putting that experience in context. That's why this whole endeavor is so frustrating. It's also why it's so unfair to mandate or pronounce that one strategy or another is the one right one. It's also why it's such a shame when actual doctors tell women things like HRT is bad, you shan't have it or you must go off it, or, conversely, when they push this or that pill or treatment on women without providing a background of information and options. Knowledge is empowerment.

[Hurdity]

"Hear hear" cityrat - both your posts.

Hurdity x

[Kathleen]

Hello ladies.

I take the point that many women do without HRT and feel well however how many actually feel awful and accept it?

I like the idea that as soon as we reach post menopause the body adjusts to the 'new normal' and life goes on as before but unfortunately that hasn't been my experience. My symptoms became much worse three years after my last period.

 I have recently experimented with coming off HRT and some symptoms have returned, indeed my tearfulness is now more troublesome than ever. If I could be sure that this is another phase that will pass I may be able to battle through it but if this is infact my 'new normal' and as good as it's going to get then I may want to try HRT again!

Take care ladies.

K.

[KarineT]

Kathleen, that's terrible and it's not fair that you're feeling worse 3 years post menopause.  It sounds like depression to me. The trouble is much worse when you still have to go to work as it will almost certainly add to the stress. Were you having these issues during your menstrual years?  I always had a hormonal imbalance and would feel tearful around my periods. Have you had your thyroid checked?  Sometimes thyroid problems can mimick menopausal symptoms.

I do hope that this won't happen to me and that I will feel better post meno.

Karine

[Kathleen]

Hello Karine T.

It gets worse because I am 64 and ten years post meno!

 I didn't really notice peri meno and my symptoms began when my periods stopped. I don't work and my children had left home so I battled through for three years before starting HRT and an AD. I still take the AD but came off HRT sixteen months ago. At the end of last year I had Glandular Fever and was then diagnosed with Hashimoto's Thyroiditis and now take Levothyroxine daily.

During my menstruating years I only noticed tender breasts before a period but as soon as I started bleeding I felt calmer so perhaps there was some tension there. I have had two children and never experienced post natal depression.

This is a bit of a sorry tale unfortunately and I don't want it to depress you. We are all different and your meno journey will be unique to you.

Incidentally I have just read an article by Meg Matthews who has her own menopause website. She says that when her menopause started she felt like a box of frogs, wasn't sleeping, was angry a lot and crying all the time. Someone suggested she was menopausal so she went to her GP and began HRT.

I hope all this helps in some way and wishing you well.

K.

[KarineT]

I suppose your health condition doesn't help either.  At the moment, I don't have any health issues, I think.  It's just this menopause thing.  I haven't had a period since January this year and, theoretically I should be post meno in January 2021 so from that point I will see if things get better or worse.

[Wrensong]

Hi Karine, I understand & respect that you prefer not to try HRT & really hope, as you say you do, that you will feel better postmenopause.  Unfortunately, in common with Kathleen & many other women, I didn't.  I waited until several years postmenopause before starting HRT when symptoms were still showing no sign of stopping.  They were not as extreme as in the worst years of perimenopause, but QOL was still poor.  By then more than a decade of my life had effectively been lost to menopause & I felt I'd wasted too much time waiting & hoping for improvement.  HRT has not been a panacea for me, but I'm better with it than without.

Your comment to Kathleen above

that's terrible and it's not fair that you're feeling worse 3 years post menopause.  It sounds like depression to me

made me wonder whether you're not aware that depression & low mood can be a biochemical consequence of hormone fluctuation & deficiency at menopause.

https://www.newsonhealth.co.uk/resources/podcasts/menopause-depression-with-gp-menopause-expert-dr-rebecca-lewis

[KarineT]

Wensong, if the brain cannot cope with a lower level of oestrogen, I know that it has oestrogen receptors, then it's bad news. I've read somewhere that menopause can, indeed, trigger depression but it needs not be permanent.  Before puberty, when the body didn't produce any oestrogen, there were no issues due to the lack of it so why is it different with menopause? Is it because the body relied on it for so long from the time the ovaries started producing it?  I really don't want to suffer permanently with anxiety & low mood and I really hope that things will improve once I'm post meno. Someone on this forum mentioned that she started feeling better after her last period.  I guess everyone's different and it"s the luck of draw but I need to remain positive.