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[Bobidy]

Hi

Again apologies if this has already been discussed, it's difficult to keep up.

I've been using the Estrogel canister with clear cap since May 18.

I've opened my new Estrogel (box labelled the same same if a little larger) and the bottle is different with a torquoise lid, but all labelled Estrogel. Exactly the same leaflet inside. No labelling for Oestradose.

I've checked all the boxes I've got in stock and they are all this new gel so presumably all new prescriptions are this now and there has just been a packaging change, which is fine.

I've been using it a couple of days and my joints seem to be playing up again and I've noticed the buzzy adrenalines again in bed.

I'm trying not to get paranoid about it being the gel but was wondering if anybody else is experiencing the same with the new stuff?

There also seems to be more gel released from the pump per application.

I'm now on 4 pumps split am and pm and my recent snapshot level was 356. I'm loathed to slather any more gel on but I'm thinking of biding my time with it until Estrodot is widely available again as a 100 patch.

[vintagefiend]

yeah i've noticed that it's taking a lot to feel remotely human- mine has turquoise cap
just gone up to 6 per day (split into 2) and i'm quite small so bit of a PITA!
on 4 pumps a day my levels were just under 300 (and testosterone 0.1) so i do understand.
i'd be interested in estrodot- is 100 supposedly equivalent to 4 pumps oestrogel
Can i ask you who you're seeing- is it a meno specialist- i'm kind of loping along by myself with useless GPs- i'm v interested in the androfemme you mentioned too!!

[vintagefiend]

sorry not really answering your question- think i had the clear cap one for a bit but wasnt fully menopausal so difficult to compare with turquoise. if anything i'd say that i've noticed differences solely while using the turquoise ie 2 pumps was brilliant initially but after few weeks wasn't enough, ditto 3 pumps- so i suspect it's more that i'm getting further into menopause. no natural period for exactly one year now so it's official!
nevertheless, i do feel that slathering on 4 per day for unremarkable results suggests that we might need something better/stronger

[Bobidy]

Hi

Yes 4 pumps = 100 patch.

I see Dr Newson and annoyingly I've just seen her and said how great it all is. Now this flipping gel saga.

She did say it is okay to increase the gel up to 10 pumps in certain ladies particularly if we are younger. It's just finding places to put it!

Im loathed to go back to my rubbish gps for their guidance on this.

I'll keep a note of the symptoms again and try to get in touch with Dr Newson for advice.

I can't understand why they would change the gel formula though?

I've got about 8 pumps of the flipping stuff in my wardrobe!

[Ladybt28]

Hi Bobidy, can't really help you as I have never been given oestrodose or oestrogel with a clear cap?  Mine have always had a turquoise on since I started in August 18 and I have also not seen any difference between the two but then I have always had oestrogel bar one prescription which was oestrodose.  It didn't seem to bother me.

In terms of body parts, I slap 2 pumps on 1 thigh and 2 on another and rub in hard! If you need to go up to 6 I would put one on each shoulder and rub hard or 2 on each shoulder if you needed 8.  There is a theory about letting it dry but takes too long and I have found it works just as well if you rub and its gone in flash!

Just keep going with what you have an up the pumps and bit and see what happens.  We can never find out until we try and as you know cos you post on the forum a lot, no one can predict how it will go for you until you try it xx

[Bobidy]

Thanks everybody, I'll sneek it up to 5 pumps and see what happens.

Does anybody else constantly feel like a lab rat!?! X

[Ladybt28]

  permanently....what I would really like is proper study conducted by someone like Prof Studd or the Chelsea and Westminster hospital where Nick Panay works from and then combined with the regional meno clinics as to the differences between gels and does etc.  It couldn't be rocket science to get some kind of data....instead of the "pin the tail on the donkey" game we are all playing.x

[vintagefiend]

thanks bobidy,
dr newsom sounds great- shame your new symptoms have arisen since you last saw her
must admit i kinda do my own thing.
i went up to 5 pumps about 3 weeks ago and i know that's long enough to figure stuff out for me- hence now going up to 6.
staggered and pleased that 10 can even be considered!! i was a bit worried re 6 but i am *only* 48- maybe not that young but sick of having the energy of a 90 yr old.
i've read about "sandrena" on here which is a more concentrated gel, i think- don't know how available it is.
good luck on 5

[MIS71MUM]

I've been checking the forum recently for this very reason.

Yes I agree with you both, the new gel with the green top instead of the white top - is different! I also agree that there is more of the gel to absorb because I think 'that's because the size of the spouts between to the 2 products are different. I also feel that because there is so much gel, it's takes longer to absorb!

I posted on here before when I received the new bottle, and I've even compared the labelling between the cylinder container and the teardrop container and they were identical. 

Call my cynical, but oestrogel was had to get hold of a while ago and now there's no problem.....could this be the oestradose in a different container?

I'm having a blood test soon and seeding an NHS gynaecologist too, so will raise my concerns with her.

I've been taking new the one for 4 weeks now, and to me, it's not the same.

[Hurdity]

Trouble is everyone absorbs it so differently ie there is great variability so that the info on equivalents is very approximate and also with gel especially it does depend on so many factors like your skin thickness, where on the body you apply it, how hairy, how sticky, how wet, how dry, what products you put on it, the temperature of your skin, time of day, area of skin you spread it on.....!!

re the different caps - companies are always changing the packaging of stuff - everything from shampoo to washing up liquid, tablets, breakfast cereals etc. It doesn't mean the product has changed. The amount dispensed by a pump - if it says it's the same dose and amount then it is (give or take the most minscule amount that would be undetectable). Last time I wrote to them - Besins (maybe 18 months ago) they hadn't changed the formulation for years. The inner packaging is a sealed pouch and I imagine it's just the outer packaging that changes - even if the inner pouch changed the gel I presume would stay the same?

If you want to write just to check they haven't changed the formulation along with the cap then do go ahead and report back - I'm done with that! Also don't forget that it is produced in different outer packs for different EU countries and even called something different....

Hurdity x
PS just seen your post Mis71 mum - oestrodose is oestrogel so whatever it says it is 0.06 % gel produced by Besins - then that's what it will be? in UK = oestrogel. See above the amount dispensed should be calibrated to be the same....that's what they told me - it;s all tested for compliance

[Bobidy]

Thanks again x

[Ladybt28]

There is a very long thread on here about this subject.  Various people have written to Besins directly for confirmation and had it back in writing that they do not manufacture and supply two different gels, only one.  The difference in the packaging arises because the gel supplied from Besins gets repackaged by at least 3 (that I know of) uk companies which allows it to be distributed here, hence the labels put over parts of the box.  It also accounts for the different cannisters.  If something happens to the gel on repacking, and I am not suggesting the repackagers do anything or add anything to it, but the act of  repacking it may change it somehow, now that is a different matter but when it starts both contents are exactly the same as supplied and manufactured by Besins.

[Bobidy]

Thanks Lbt

It's a weird one. My head tells me don't be so flipping ridiculous it should be exactly the same it's just packaging! But it's odd to have grotty symptoms back as soon as I change to the new gel as I'd been fine and feeling smug on the other.

Besins are obviously aware now so it's up to them to investigate the claims and ensure the standards are the same.

It's really frustrating!

[MIS71MUM]

I've emailed Besins to ask about the formulation.

Just to be clear, I'm comparing oestrogels as have never had oestradose. If my memory serves me right they are differing ingredients/carriers between oestrogel and oestradose.

I'm the same as you Bobidy, my brain is telling me that it's the same, however, my body is telling me otherwise. 

To be honest, if it's the case of increasing the new stuff, then 'that's what I will do, but it would be good to get some form of understanding 'what's changed between the two.

I?ll post back when I get a response from Besins.

Night all x

[Ladybt28]

Hi MIS71MUM - previous letters from Besins have always confirmed that there is only one gel which they manufacture.  There are not two with different carriers.  As I said, it is possible that something may happen in the repackaging plant, in the mere act of decanting the gel from the manufacturer and putting it through the alternative bottling process but they have always confirmed they manufacture just one gel.  Oestrodose and Oestrogel are one an the same gel manufactured and supplied by Besins but Oestrogel is relabelled by repackagers in the UK.  It may have to do with import licence or import tax or some such thing I don't know but I do know the Besins gel is relabelled.  I am not sure but I believe on the really long running thread there may be links to their confirmation letters or definitely excerpts from them.  Hurdity did a huge amount of investigation into it and another lady who is no longer a member of the forum and it is an issue which comes up time and time again.