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Author Topic: Menopause and inflammation  (Read 4996 times)

ElkWarning

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Menopause and inflammation
« on: December 29, 2019, 07:12:06 PM »

Bear with me a moment ...

So I work in psychiatry in a research setting, and one of the 'hot new things' is called 'the inflammation theory of depression'.  Where I'm based it grew out of an observation that people who had hepatitis, treated with Interferon, tended to experience drug resistant depression.  Quite a few of these folks would actually manage to beat the hep, clean up their lives, but then they'd kill themselves.  It struck psychiatrists as odd.  Why do that when everything was, essentially, fixed?

One of the things that they found was that Interferon causes inflammation, so they went forward on the basis that it might be the inflammation causing the drug resistant depression.  We have an experiment running at the moment where people are injected with the typhoid vaccine (causes inflammation) and then their depressive tendencies are monitored (they temporarily show signs of depression until the vaccine has done its job).

Here's an article in Nature (reputable scientific journal) about it - https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-05261-3

Why am I mentioning it here?  Because I keep reading about people who feel the anti depressants aren't working.  Well, they wouldn't if you had drug resistant depression caused by inflammation (proved by the accidental Interferon 'experiment').  And then I read here that people have found relief taking anti histamine - which basically treats inflammation.  On the side of this I'm vaguely aware that our muscular aches and pains are caused by inflammation, and this is part and parcel of the menopause.

What do you think?

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Penelope

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Re: Menopause and inflammation
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2019, 07:32:52 PM »

ElkWarning I wish I worked with you.
Yes you are totally correct and I think I should add that a lot of people kick the antidepressants and use slow release ibuprofen and find that works really well and of course it would it's an anti inflammatory med.My husband and ai are experimenting with this theory at the moment.
Fingers crossed in the next few years doctors will actually prescribe Anti inflammatory drugs instead of antidepressants.
People also find hay fever pills also calm anxiety.😀
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Kathleen

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Re: Menopause and inflammation
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2019, 05:32:10 PM »

Hello ladies.

I've seen this cause of depression mentioned a few times in recent years.

There was also some research by
 Oxford University  concluding that people with chronic illnesses are often depressed and  much like the person in the  article my reaction was 'well, duh'.  I've read that because inflammation usually only develops as a result of disease a state of depression is a way of keeping the sick individual inactive and isolated from others in the group. This is done to prevent the pathogen from spreading and infecting others. The problems occur when inflammation becomes constant.

It seems that reducing inflammation is a good place to start when trying to improve our physical and mental health .

Take care ladies.

K.



 
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CLKD

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Re: Menopause and inflammation
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2019, 06:13:45 PM »

Interesting.   Is the cause of inflammation sourced?

Are the people in the current experiment suffering from depression long-term? Worth trying anti-infmallmotry medications if ADs don't work.  Then the side effect of gut problems raises it's head  ::).  How long will the experiment last for, is it double-blind or will that come later?

Is the brain inflammed at all? 

I get aches and pains which respond well to 'nurofen'.  I don't notice that my depression, already treated with medication, eases at all as usually the 'nurofen' works within a couple of hours.  It is known that chronic, uncontrolled pain can cause depression and anxiety as well as leading people to end their Lives.

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Mary G

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Re: Menopause and inflammation
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2019, 06:47:34 PM »

This is an interesting subject.   You can have a C reactive protein blood test to detect inflammation and also have your ESR rate checked. 
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CLKD

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Re: Menopause and inflammation
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2019, 06:54:17 PM »

 :thankyou:
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Mary G

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Re: Menopause and inflammation
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2019, 07:02:25 PM »

You are welcome CLKD!
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pants46

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Re: Menopause and inflammation
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2020, 08:55:13 PM »

Really interesting.
Penelope how is your experiment going and what exactly are you doing ?
How do I get hold if slow release Ibuprofen ? Is it different to the bog standard stuff you get from the chemist ?
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Penelope

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Re: Menopause and inflammation
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2020, 10:21:26 PM »

Hi pants it's called slow release ibuprofen 800mg it releases slow in your system over 8 hours.
Hay fever pills are also really good for anxiety and depression.
Anything to help bring down the inflammation in the body.
Just experiment and see how you feel or if after a few days it lifts.
I get the ibuprofen on prescription.
You often here people say they never felt better than when they were taking anti inflammatory meds for a sore back or something else.Well we can all have inflammation inside our bodies that we can't see.Just being over weight causes inflammation!
Good luck 😀
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Ladybt28

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Re: Menopause and inflammation
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2020, 12:27:35 AM »

Hi Elk, I have thought from the age of 26 that AD resistant depression comes from inflammation or some upset in the gut system.
The reason I came to that conclusion was that from the age of 2 to the age of 13 I suffered from recurrent tonsillitis which was treated with 2 weeks worth on antibiotics. I also had as a child scarletina, german measles, mumps, chicken pox.  I got gingivitis in my gums and had really bad cold sores that used to spread across my chin! Urgh!  It culminated at the age of 12 in getting mild rheumatic fever, and then they took my tonsils out and put grommits in my ears.  Until then they told my parents I would "grow out of the tonsillitis" as they didn't believe in taking them out in the 60's (well my doctor didn't) but by the last 4/5 years I was on antibiotics for 2 weeks at a time or 5 times a year.  But think what they say about overuse of antibiotics now?

It cured the tonsillitis obviously but by the time I had passed through puberty the depression and anxiety had set in at 14 and at 16 I had what was called my first "breakdown".  I was started on the AD's and had them pretty much full time with a few 6 month breaks for 40 years. I was labelled with Chronic fatigue/ME at 26 and so it continued until I got my hormones sorted out during meno.

It was also interesting when they treated me for sepsis with bags and bags of intravenous antibiotics that for the first time in years my body was not sore somewhere.  I have always sworn that my ongoing issues from puberty was due to the unresolved inflammation, permanent inflammatory response somewhere and chemical changes somewhere due to overuse of antibiotics.

I find your post really really interesting xx
« Last Edit: January 02, 2020, 12:33:54 AM by Ladybt28 »
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Perinowpost

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Re: Menopause and inflammation
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2020, 10:19:23 AM »

Very interesting post, I'm sure there's something in this.  I've always been interested in nutrition which is part of the picture, as well as stress and overuse of antibiotics (all of which are to be avoided as much as possible). I've recently given up sugar and white bread and it's definitely made a positive difference to mood, as well as weight loss x
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squeaker99

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Re: Menopause and inflammation
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2020, 11:22:39 AM »

Yes this makes total sense to me.
 I don't often take Ibuprofen as my BP can be high (I'm on tabs) but when I do I always feel a short term sense of calm.
I also feel much better with gastric issues and mood if I stay off gluten/caffeine/sugar  - all of which seem to ' hype' me up.

I am sure there is a reason yet to be revealed why some women sail through Meno and others struggle no matter what ' regime' they try. Inflammation could be it.

So sad these things have not been properly tested on a large scale as just from being on this site there seem so many similar stories and so much distress that could be avoided. I guess there is no commercial gain from ' change your diet' so it would have to be governments that put money into studying these things.


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ElkWarning

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Re: Menopause and inflammation
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2020, 12:06:05 PM »

Aye, very interesting.

I mean I know anecdotal evidence isn't held in massively high regard, but in the summer, because they don't mow the verges in Brighton any more, I found myself suffering from hay fever.  I lived on antihistamines for a couple of weeks and what was weird was that my mood lifted.  I don't have depression, instead I'm an anxiety monkey, but the world just became much less threatening.  I didn't put 2 + 2 together.

Over xmas my husband pulled a couple of muscles in his back, and after three days he was in such a foul mood, really quite unpleasant, very irritable and mean.  Once tanked up with brufen, the mood passed.  Admitedly, this was because he was in lots less pain, but I don't think it was just the pain making him horrid ...

Interesting what Penelope says about experimenting, fingers crossed you get the results you're both after.

And, Kathleen, for me, I think maybe they don't even realise how widespread inflammation is.  So, another anecdote, I asked to go on HRT because my muscles were hurting.  It was a sports therapist who suggested the HRT.  Apparently, my muscles, amongst other things, were inflammed.

CLKD, re: the source of inflammation.  For the people with hep, the inflammation was caused by the drug used to treat it, Interferon.  For the people currently participating in the study we have running here, the typhoid vaccine is used to cause the inflammation.  They are what's known as 'sub clinical', i.e. healthy volunteers, so anyone with depression is screened out.  It's not double blind, as it's important someone knows whether or not they've been vaccinated against typhoid (if they want to go on hols, for example), but the data acquisition is via both questionnaire and also MRI scan.  It's the MRI that shows whether there's any inflammation.  Obviously, if those with inflammation report no low mood, then the conclusion would be that there's not a connection.

I didn't know about the C reactive protein test.  Very interesting.

LadyBT, if I read you right you seem to be saying that while you were being treated for inflammation you were kind of ok, but once those treatments stopped you started having difficulties?  I mean it's just weird, because I literally Googled Oestrogen and inflammation and it came back saying yes, and this can be clearly seen as more women than men suffer from autoimmune diseases - MS, Fibro, Rheumatoid Arthritis, etc.  Oddly, or perhaps not, it would seem that Progesterone is an anti-inflammatory, under certain specific conditions, but dose and timing of dose is absolutely crucial, for example, following brain injury.

I also agree re: nutrition.  At the point I found out that it was the deadly nightshade family setting my guts off, I was able to eliminate and felt all over better.  Also, I have multiple allergies and am often exposed.  I wonder if I've spent my whole life a bit inflammed?

Something to ponder anyway.

Best

EK
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CLKD

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Re: Menopause and inflammation
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2020, 01:47:22 PM »

So interesting.  I wonder how far back inflammation began to bother humans.  The more food stuffs we introduced as we evolved?  So we had more potential allergens around ...........

Wonder if native Tribes have allergies? 
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ElkWarning

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Re: Menopause and inflammation
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2020, 02:39:50 PM »

Ah, that's an interesting question.  So my intolerance to the deadly nightshade family, it's all from the Americas isn't it, even the potatoes.  I just don't have the enzyme required to digest it, which is hardly surprising ...

As for inflammation related to allergies, like hay fever, another funny one, there's quite a bit of debate as to when hay fever first entered our lives.  This is a kind of interesting read - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allergic_rhinitis

Happy new year, CLKD.
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