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[Erinne]

Mistakenly first posted on 'Forum Guide'!
I've been taking Utrogestan 100mgs and Elleste Solo 1mg continuously since last June, (I'm postmenopausal) and all was good until April/May this year when I started to feel drugged/drunk. I've read that progesterone can affect women this way when they take it as part of fertility treatment presumably Utrogestan is the problem for me?

I tried taking 100mgs Utrogestan vaginally every other night but that made things worse. I've also tried Provera and that was awful.

I've been taking Utrogestan again for eleven nights, making sure I don't eat for two hours before but again I feel drugged/drunk and worn out. I also think my hair has got thinner.

So I guess now I have to try 200mgs 12 days out of 28 and if that's no good then the only alternative is the Mirena coil?

[Hurdity]

Yup - you got it Erinne! There aren't many options unfortunately....

Many of us do not take utrogestan continuously for exactly these reasons - feeling drugged and fuizzy head, headachey etc. Where are you in menopause - eg age, last natural period etc? That is quite a low dose of oestrogen so maybe also you could go higher as the beneficial effects may being swamped by the side effects of the utrogestan.

If you are well post-menopause - maybe your doctor would agree to your being on a longer cycle - you could stretch it to about 5 weeks maybe and then this would minimise the time on the dreaded stuff! I take utro vaginally x 11/12 days now every 5-6 weeks (ish) so the rest of the time I am on oestrogen only and fog-free. This is easier to do if on low-medium doses of oestrogen as your uterus lining is likely to be better protected. Start with the licensed dose/duration as you are doing (12 days x 200 mg orally or 12 days x 100 mg vaginally if your oestrogen dose is not high), see what bleed you get, and take it from there. Always with agreement from your doctor....

Good luck and keep us posted

Hurdity x

[Tc]

Hiya errine I m sorry you have found this happening  . I just wanted to let you know that I have found the same issue.

Continous utrogestan eventually (after about 3 or 4 months) caused me to feel very depressed spaced out and drugged up. I was falling asleep standing up!!  One reason proposed to me was that my eastrogen was low so I became "progesterone heavy".  There was an imbalance. Getting eastrogen a bit higher might mean it would offset the effects of progesterone somewhat. As hurdity says.

Unfortunately i havent  been able to get my eastrogen levels up.so i had to switch to 12 days at 200.
It isnt working out well for me so far. But that's another issue.

Hopefully using as a cycle will work out better for you.

Just wanted you to know you are not alone in this horrid side effect..
Xx

[Erinne]

Hi Hurdity, thanks for the reply and the info.. It really is a help to know I'm not alone in having this issue with Utrogestan/progesterone.

I'm 54 and just over 4 years postmenopausal.

Yes I did wonder if my oestrogen is too low and went up to 2mgs Elleste Solo but after 4 weeks felt decidedly ropey and after 5 weeks was horribly depressed, tearful and had horrendous cravings, ( a whole tub of ice cream 3 days in a row!) so went back down to 1mg. I then tried Sandrena gel 0.5mgs, as I know oestrogen is better absorbed transdermally, but I'm afraid I only lasted 4 days on that as I deteriorated so badly, feeling that I wasn't absorbing any oestrogen. I know I need to give it much longer and may try it again but it's just steeling myself to suffer the bedding in period - and maybe having to increase the dose of course.

I'm actually currently taking Zumenon, as Elleste Solo is impossible to source at the moment and increased it to 1.5mgs eleven days ago.

Really hope doing things sequentially will be okay.  I tried not taking any HRT to see how I would be now and five days in utter horror ensued so definitely still need it.

Erinne x

[Erinne]

Hi Tc, thanks for your reply. As I said to Hurdity, it is such a help and comfort to know I'm not alone with this - as I confess I have been feeling very much like that.

I'm really sorry to hear that taking Utrogestan sequentially isn't going well for you so far. To be honest I'll be very pleasantly surprised if it's okay for me.

Reading that you may be 'progesterone heavy' has made think that I should try again, and persevere with, the Sandrena gel, as I may then absorb oestrogen more effectively and off-set the Utrogestan. Though to be honest I feel like I'm getting as much oestrogen as I need. I wish there was a lower dose of Utrogestan available!

Have you ever considered the Mirena coil? I really don't like the idea of it but if it's a better way of getting progesterone then I may try it if sequential is not feasible.

Really hope things work out for you.

Erinne x

[Tc]

Hiya. Errin.  am hopefull going to be getting an eastrogen implant and it has been suggested to maybe get the mirena at the same time. I'm not sure hi want to change too much in one go. What concerns you about mirena?

My main issue with the 12 day regime is migraine. I got it when first taking it conti but it subsided after a couple of weeks and didnt return in the next few months on conti. . Ithe cycle keeps repeating those initial side effects each time. I dont find the spacey tired feeling and depression kick in   until.about day  10.  It was a shame I had to stop conti due to the imbalance  but t got pretty bad I fell asleep at the wheel and was dragging myself up the stairs to my flat by the handrail. It was dangerous. But I would like to  restart conti once I get eastrogen up. See if it makes a difference.

If you didnt get migraine from continous at the beginning I think its maybe unlikely you will get it on a 12 day cycle. It obviously doesnt affect you in that way.

When you do your first cycle try to keep a diary of symptoms. That's what I've done. In a way going onto the cycle has been a good exercise for me as its enabled me to identify which symptoms are utrogestan driven. I even identified that bouts of cystitis coincide with it for me. 

If you feel you are getting enough eastrogen then I would say maybe dont increase it. Eastrogen being o.k for you is a realy good starting place to work from to balance everything else.   The higher we go with E the more P we need to protect lining. .
I see you tried provera. May I ask why you didnt get on with it?

Hilya Birdy. I find it kicks in about day 10. Last time the "withdrawal" phase I.e. after day 12 lasted  2 or 3 days for me.  But I didnt bleed on withdrawal I bled during and stopped on withdrWal so maybe I'm not typical.  Are you on day 5 withdrawal from continuous? Am I right you havent started the cycle yet?

When I withdrew after  stopping conti for 4 weeks to have a break and clear the excess from my system the withdrawal lasted longer than it seems to on the cycle.  Mayybe that's from being on ifor several months and as I say I was definitely in excess..  on the cycle I dont find the withdrawal as bad as the days  I am actually taking it.

I might be wrong here so I'm going to tentatively say it   if you are on a low or medium dose E and you use utrogestan vaginally I think maybe you only need to do 100mg forc12 days as more gets straight to the uterus.

I think as post meno ladies if we are taking a,cycle we should get regular scans. My doc agreed I can get one every 6 months.  if she hadn't agreed I thought I would go private. I  looked it up and trans vaginal scan is surprisingly inexpensive compared to some other scans.
Xxxx

[nicole2412]

Hi just jumping in on this post as I have also been experiencing this brain fog sensation, on progesterone and when withdrawing from it.
How long does this withdrawal usually last for? Been on progesterone for 5 months.

[nicole2412]

Yes I've had the bleed. I am hoping after this cycle without using it, it starts to subside.

[Erinne]

Hi Tc, my main concern with the Mirena coil is that it contains a synthetic progestin, levonorgestrel, rather than body identical progesterone so I think it is possible it will have adverse results for me. On the other hand it could give me a level of progesterone my system can tolerate and benefit from. I'm still thinking about it...

 It's really not good that Utrogestan is the only body identical progesterone available at the moment... Hopefully as more and more women take HRT then other types of body identical progesterone will become available  - and in more levels of dosage. I recently spoke to the Medical Liasion Officer from Besins, who produce Utrogestan, and he said that the menopause has been a very neglected area - SO true!

Re. Provera...I took the lowest available dose, 2.5mgs, and it had an immediate and very powerful effect. On the one hand I felt like it really elevated my low mood and gave me back confidence - but it was too much and I felt like I was hyper/high and just not able to calm down which was exhausting. It also gave me a nasty, dull headache and made me feel nauseous.  It really did feel like a powerful synthetic substance in my system which was intolerable. As you rightly realised, I don't suffer with migraines, or headaches generally. I certainly haven't had that problem with Utrogestan so Provera was a definite no for me.

However, as I've realised with this bloomin' menopause malarkey - we're all so different! The Mirena coil or Provera may be fine for you and I don't want to put you off them unduly. On the other hand, if you're struggling with Utrogestan, then you may have problems with Provera as I did.

The oestrogen implant sounds interesting and something I'm going to research. Really hope it works for you.

Erinne xx

[Tc]

Thank you errin.
Dont worry you havent put me off.

I agree about the lack of choice. I believe  in the USA there are gel caps specifically for vaginal  delivery.

Utrogestan have a 200mg specifically for vaginal.delivery but I believe it's only used in fertility treatment and not HRT.

I have read so much conflicting stuff around dosing I dont know what to think.

One site i read claimed that  if you are on 12 days orally 200 you can use vaginally instead at a lower dose of  100 due to better delivery to the uterus.

If I'm going to carry on with utrogestan I need to try vaginally but  I dont know with the high dose E I'm on if 12 days at 100 is going to give me enough protection.

If you go onto Chelsea and Westminster menopause clinic site you will see the info about implants.

Xxx

[Erinne]

Hi Tc, thanks for the info 're. the Chelsea and Westminster menopause clinic site.

If you look at Hurdity's post further up this thread it does seem as if it's okay to take only 100mgs Utrogestan sequentially if you take it vaginally.

Maybe check that with her in relation to the level of oestrogen you're taking?

Take care,
Erinne xx

[Tc]

Thanks erinx

[Tc]

I think 100 ipatch s considered high and above that very high. I saw a chart somewhere once. I'll have a look for it tommorow bird. Xxx

[Tc]

Does anyone know anything about the 200mg pessary specifically for vaginal use?

I knew it existed . I cant remember where I read it but i think it was in relation to fertility clinics .I think it is utrogestan.
X

[Tc]

Iwhat I'm wondering is because it is specifically for vaginal delivery it may be that it is even better absorbed than using the oral.pill vaginally. So for those of us who cant tolerate 12 days but are worried about not getting enough over 7 maybe it would give better protection over 7 days than using 200 of the oral pill vaginally. For the same amount of days.
Just my own ponderings.