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[Sgtvhilts]

Hi,
I am fed up to the back teeth.
As some of you might know, I have been on HRT sequi since April 18. No matter what combo I try or how high the oestrogen  dose goes the outcome is the same-:
First 4 weeks or so utter relief from nearly all symptoms ( the worst being night sweats ergo insomnia, head fog)
THEN with each regime i've Used they come back- every single time, change , they go 4 weeks, back etc etc etc
Also, I have had a 30 yr relationship with depression/anxiety and what i've Really noticed is crushing low mood/inertia/tears / mourning my lost youth on the Oestrogen only part, then high as a kite (which is actually quite nice), wanting to go out and get tattoos , gambling having a great irresponsible time on the oest/prog part. I am on max dose of antidepressants.
What on earth is going on- someone out there must have some wise words of wisdom for me......pleeeease

[CLKD]

HORMONES!  it is known that ladies can have post natal depression due to the huge upheavals around the days after birthing a baby.  This can be bad enough to cause schizophrenia.

Post Menstrual Tension can cause women to commit murder.  Dr Kath Dalton represented several in Court to explain the huge upheavals that hormones cause.  Long B4 it was recognised sufficiently to make allowances for those women who kill.

I think you need to speak to a professional about your mood swings.  Mania is a recognised condition - you may need a more dedicated medication to ease this part of the hormone replacement, if indeed you decide to stick with it.

Have you decided which meno symptom you would like to ease?  Dad had manic depression which I often wondered was related to hormones  - he would rage for weeks then hit a dip - sitting still for hours, crying.  In his rage state he would work on his hobbies 24/7 as well as working full time. 

Perhaps have a look-see and ask at NAPS - National Association for Pre-menstrual Symptom - they advised me to eat 24/7 when I had difficulties in the 1990s. 

[Kathleen]

Hello Sgtvhilts

 Unfortunately I've never had the cessation of symptoms that you have intermittently enjoyed so consider yourself lucky lol! Seriously though my HRTs have never been totally effective so your frustration certainly resonates with me. I have always taken oestrogen and  progesterone together ( apart from a short time trying a long cycle which had to be abandoned due to bleeding ) so I don't know the impact of each hormone but I am familiar with the mood rollercoaster which is exhausting

Hopefully someone will be along with help and advice but be assured you are not alone.

Wishing you well.

K.

[Sgtvhilts]

My worst symptom that I want to get rid of are the horrendous night sweats.
Kathleen- you felt that hrt never relived your symptoms, but in my case I do get relief, then It comes back- so it obviously starts to work then stops for some unfathomable reason- that's what is really doing my head in.
CLKD- yep, i've Been thinking about the good old bi polar, but I don't feel I'm ‘nutty' enough. Just get these exhilarating feelings for a few days- I quite like them. Obsessive thoughts and then the ‘low days'I do not ever loose touch with reality and know what is real or not. Also I think I ‘cycle' up and down to quickly to be bi polar, the episodes usually last longer in one phase or another.
I am also doing my load as I am seeing my gp next week and hope she doesn't start tinkering with my ‘mental'meds! , because even though the mood cycling is a bit disconcerting  , changing and mucking about with my meds might make me worse and that would be scary.
It is probably a bit ‘late' in my MH history to be thinking bi polar- I thought most people were diagnosed in teens/twenties.

[CLKD]

But if HORMONES are causing similar symptoms of instability then something ain't right?  and you have thought along these lines too.

How were you during your menstruating years?  I know how my moods etc. were, PMS kicked in after I got into my 30s.   

I don't think it is ever 'late' to be diagnosed with anything .........

[Sgtvhilts]

Difficult to say really as I have had ‘anxiety/depression since I was 20.
Medicated since 24.
I have always been up and down- very noticeable that I would be pretty up before a period, then down for about a week after, then start building again- but not as noticeable as this.
I also recently had a general anaesthetic for gall bladder ( gastritis according to GP, evidently not lol) and wondering if all those barbiturates ( general,anaesthetic drugs) set my worse moods off as I was reasonably steady/predicatable before.
I forgot to say that I haven't stopped periods yet, I'm peri aged 49

[CLKD]

General Anaesthetic can certainly have effects!  It's the best dreams I ever have  .

Maybe keep a mood/food/symptom diary, something to discuss with your GP?  Have a look-see at the NAPS web-site too ;-). Let us know.

[Tc]

Hi SG. Your own hormones will be spiking up too.
After years of going through cycles of depression, and then huge highs which would then turn to anxiety I was diagnosed at 51 with emotionally unstable personality disorder.there are no special medications for it. According to my physch. Anti depressant wise he has either kept me on the same one or changed to a different SSRI. But he believes CBT can help. There is also a therapy called DBT which I cant get in my area.

It's realy just a term for the patterns of behaviour and the way one reacts. When he diagnosed me it made a lot of sense. A feature of it is mood can change very quickly. Even from young my family called me "Jekyll and hyde". I always felt great during the "high" periods which sometimes lasted for hours, sometimes days or weeks  but  during the latter  would always make drastic changes to my lifestyle    appearance and sometimes do out of character things  . Often making bad judgements and rash decisions. But the highs can also make me incredibly energetic and productive and spontaneous and probably great fun to be around too. Although after too long on a high it tips over into anxiety and unhealthy behaviours. Which has typically been when I have sought help.

I find CBT has helped me but it's not everyone's cup of tea.

I have had times sometimes lasting years where I have been very stable and felt totally free of any MH issues but life events and more recently the hormone crash associated with surgery have triggered my anxiety and depression. Although I've had no highs since then.

EUPD is a cyclical thing and so are hormones. It wasnt til I came on here that I realised hormones might have been behind some of my past "episodes".

Iits only my experience. My diagnosis hasnt altered my life if anything its helped me in trying to understand the patterns.  And obviously I'm not medical and I dont know you and I'm not saying I think for one moment you have it. Just thought I'd share in case it might be of some help. 

I wish I could offer more advice re the HRT. I also find I get a 2 week "boost" from a new regime and then back to square one and I dont have the answer. M struggeling to get my levels of eastrogen up which might explain my lack of "highs"  but for what it's worth, I do think if there is an underlying mood issue that it may take time for things to settle on HRT especially as your own hormones might be a bit erratic. So hopefully in time you will stabilise.
All the best to you.
Xxx

[racjen]

I can really identify with that constant cycling from hope to despair- my experience hasn't been as predictable as yours, but over the last two years I've had fleeting periods of relief from my worst symptoms (anxiety and depression) only to find they either don't last or they plunge me into suicidal depression. When I first started HRT I had a blissful week when the progesterone phase seemed to sort everything out. Then it just stopped, despite carrying on with the same regime. Testosterone was similar - one week of amazing relief from symptoms, felt more normal than I had in years, then it stopped and the depression set in. Ditto amytriptyline and pregabalin, both of which eased the anxiety for a couple of weeks and then tipped me over into black depression. At the moment I'm on Fluoxetine - been on it for 4 weeks and I fear it's going the same way- anxiety reducing but I just want to stay in bed with the curtains closed all day. It feels like my brain just resets itself each time to this horrible place of anxiety/despair and there's nothing I can do about it 

[Tc]

So Sorry racjen. .. I found fluoxetine helped lift depression but didnt do much for my anxiety. But primarily it's supposed to treat depression and as you are still suffering so much maybe it needs a little more time. I used to find it took 6 weeks or more. Failing that, would you be opposed to a dose increase if that's an option?

Sending love x

[racjen]

I'm supposed to give it the full 6 weeks (so another 2) and then go back to my GP. I think increase in dosage is a possibility, also the addition of another drug called quetiapine which would add to any beneficial effect.

[Sgtvhilts]

Wow
Thanks ladies
Tc- you have described me and my MH. I have to say though I am not a ‘lover' of the term ‘personality disorder ‘ it makes it sound like there is something dodgy about ones persona/character.- what makes us what we are,  was bi-polar ever mentioned? I have had CBT in the past- not for me as I could never hone in what it was that was bothering me- it was spaghetti head- everything. What is DBT?
Race-Jen. Again, sounds familiar...... I remember back from what you have described with your anxiety, to when it first happened to me. I was about 21, and it got so bad I tipped into depression, spent most of the time under the duvet wanting to wake up with it gone away- I poured alcohol on top to feel better, but of course it only made it worse. Eventually, I went to GP and was put on the then very fashionable Paroxitine, which changed my life. I am not sure where I would be now if not for that. It has had a lot of bad press, but yes it is difficult to get off, but hey I have no plans to stop. It is specifically for anxiety.
Thanks for all comment that make me know i'm Not alone xx

[Tc]

Sg. Yes. About  10 years ago  a different physch suggested cyclical bi  polar. 

Dbt. Dialectical  behaviour therapy. It's a  different approach to CBT. My doc mentioned it to me as it's been used in borderline personality which is how some docs refer to EUPD. But when he looked into it he wasnt allowed to refer anyone and he said its reserved for
in -patients in my borough due to funding.

I got all hopeful  about trying this new therapy, as you do, only to be bitterly disappointed. My MH care comes under a London borough so not  sure if it's available in other boroughs/area
X

[vintagefiend]

Hi there,
Can't really help but wanted to say that, like you, Sgtvhilts, the oestradiol part of hrt plunges me into further depression which is unusual I think!!
the prog part makes me v anxious so, basically, hrt is not good for me- and goodness knows I have tried everything!!
quite often people on this forum are surprised that oestradiol has that effect on me- assuming i've made a mistake- but it's definitely the case
i have history of depression especially post natal- maybe there's something in that.
best wishes anyway- we persevere!
 

[Sgtvhilts]

Hi vintage
Yes, with me it is certainly the oestrogen part I get really flat, but I wonder if it is the lack of progesterone rather than the Oestrogen per se.
Who knows🙆‍♀️, but I am going to have to do some cost/benefit decisions.
Do I stay on the regime and put up with the bad days knowing I'll be fine once prog kicks in or do i  get a psych review, where they may much around with my drugs, which may or may not make me feel better.
Seeing go next week, so will discuss then.