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[Mandee]

Hi all,

I posted on here a couple months ago that I had started an experiment to increase the dose of my evorel 100 patches by leaving half the old patch on alongside the new one when changing them as my gp won't prescribe a higher level.

It's now been 2 months and libido has increased a tiny bit, the episodes of having to pee a lot more during the day and with more urgency have stopped, and the nasty dreams I was often having have gone as well. My bleeds had gone down to almost nothing on the 100 dose but after the first month on the extra half patch I had a brown bleed with a bit of red, then this month's bleed was heavier with cramps and all red with some clots but still light enough to use a panty liner. I was thinking I wasn't absorbing the the patches properly but obviously that's not the case as proven by the better bleeds.
The sudden hair loss that started just after I upped the dose, which I mentioned in a separate post recently, has lessened a bit as well.

Unfortunately my sleep is still crap, waking up too early and feeling sleepy all day, plus the lack of energy and well being hasn't improved at all either. This symptom has always been the first to show up and the hardest to control.
I have always used a fifth of a sachet Testogel daily since 2013 as prescribed by a previous meno clinic. Surely this should be enough to deal with the sleep, lack of energy and confidence, it certainly did in the beginning but this suddenly stopped a year later.

It looks like my estrogen levels are still not high enough so I'm wondering if it would be OK to try leaving the whole old patch on with the new one and see if this helps.
I'm on utrogestan 200 vaginally for 12 days monthly and can't find any info on how high a patch dose this will safely cover to shed the lining. I have never had any bleeding at odd times so far and I've been on the 100 patch since the start of 2017. I'm now 54. I'm sure I've read on here that some ladies are on very high doses also.

[Nik2502]

Hi Mandee

I think it's all about experimenting. Personally I've no faith in any of the doctors I've seen so far and often tweak my own medication.

A lot of lady's are on high doses under consultant care and are regularly monitored.

I recently upped my patch by adding half to my Evorel 75 and it made me feel worse. So I cut some off my 75 and felt better?!

We are weird creatures us hormonal women! X

[Mandee]

Hi Nik2502,

My gp is NHS and I'm not under any consultants or anything so have no option but to ask for help on here and experiment.
I only have half a 100 patch left to tinker with and that's already been on for 3 and half days so dose has dropped a bit.

How do you tweak your hrt to increase it without running out before your repeat is due? If I used more of my patches or vagifem I'd run out and have to go without until then. I don't understand how other ladies on here do this, they never mention running out early.

I have been looking online to see if I can buy extra patches and have found some online UK pharmacies that seem genuine where you just fill in a questionnaire and they either accept or refuse your order. None of them sell utrogestan though and would probably refuse to let me have estrogen only patches as I need progesterone to go with them.
There is also some estrogel on ebay but it's in tubes like toothpaste comes in, not the pump everyone mentions using on here but could be decanted into a syringe to get an accurate dose. Does anyone know if this a genuine product and safe to buy?

[Nik2502]

Hi
I get Evorel 75 patches and utrogestan tablets from UK meds online. Never had a problem ordering from them before. They aren't cheap but they keep me going as my GP won't prescribe extra.

[allie007]

You could say they come off so you go through more than 2 a week. I genuinely went through 3 in one day last week on patch change day. The first I put on too low and wouldnt restick so I had to use another. The second came unstuck after a few hours. The third was fine.
On changeover day after a few hours I feel awful. I change mine on a Monday morning and by lunchtime im shattered and in a foul mood for the rest of the day.  Im going to start keeping the old one on with the new until the evening and then take it off. My second change is a Thursday evening. I don't sleep well but I'm ok on Friday.
I use a 100 Estradot patch and i use a pump of gel but its only because i reregistered with a new GP that Ive managed to get that x

[Moonshine54]

It's seems we are all different  and it's a bit experimental. I am on utrogestan  200mg and today the consultant has upped  my evorel to 50. She was very helpful ,  as I have had shocking help from my Gp. I have improved  ...My low mood has lifted ..no flushes ....no anxiety. However I have severe pms the week before my period. It's so bad that I can hardly function.  I hope it makes a difference.  Good luck with the increase  I hope it works xxx

[Mandee]

Hi allie007,
That's weird how you feel like that on patch change days, I don't ever notice any ups or downs either leading up to or after changing patches at all.
I've been with my gp for about a year and he'd most likely question a sudden non-sticking issue when I've never had a problem before. If you have sticking issues you can use Tegaderm, it's a sticky film used by tattooists to cover fresh tattoos. It's great for sticking small bits of patch if you cut them up as they tend to come off easily.

Hi Nik2502,
Thanks for that info. It's good to know there is an alternative source when doctors won't help.
Can't see utrogestan on that site but I get mine from my gp anyway so I won't need to buy them unless I need a higher dose.  I don't know if the 200mg I'm using is high enough to safely cover patches more than 150 though, can't find any information anywhere.

Moonshine54,
Glad you're feeling better and I hope the pms improves soon. I've had idiot doctors since moving here as well, one stopped my testogel and another the vagifem without even speaking to me first! Luckily another gp in the same surgery sorted it all out, he's the one I see at present and was recommended by the local chemist as being hrt friendly.

[Mandee]

Had a review with my gp today and mentioned the returning symptoms, didn't tell him about the patch experiment though.
He agreed to up the dose of Vagifem from 2 a week to 3 and said I can use 4 if I need to after I mentioned the BMS news about them being safe to use more often.
He also prescribed 50mcg patches to use alongside the 100s so no more having to leave half the old patch on! When I saw him last time he wouldn't increase anything saying “it could cause problems later on”.

I couldn't believe it, I was expecting a referral to a meno clinic as my previous gp said the 100s are maximum dose and anything above is off licence. He wants to see me in 3 months time to see if it's working, which it is going by the experiment, but it should be even better now I can use a new extra patch with a full 50mcg rather than a part-used one.

[Tc]

Allie007. May I ask do you think theres an absorption problem with estradot. I'm now up to 200 I.e .2x100 patch and my eastrogen level has fallen even lower
I dont absorb gel so I've been classed as a non absorber but I'm wondering if other patches might be better than the estradot. It does seem those who are on it are on higher doses than with other patches.
Xx

[jaycee]

Just read these posts about Everol, and i have just been prescribed them particularly worried about the comment about hair loss, as i have had sudden hair loss,and i was on livial

[NorthArm]

Tc have you thought about trying oestrogen tablets? You can get them up to 3mg and given your absorption issues with patch and gel they might be better for you?

[Hurdity]

2 mg is the highest single oestrogen tablet dose. Qlaira contraceptive pill has some tablet with 3 mg but only for two days per month - the other days are 2 mg and 1 mg. If you wanted higher than 2 mg you would have to take extra tabs.

Hurdity x

[allie007]

TC, I've no idea. Maybe do what North Arm suggested a try the tablets. Plenty of women have good results with them.

[Tc]

Thanks ladies. I am considering tablets but I'm a bit concerned as I'm overweight and a long time smoker so there is a thrombosis risk according to my doc.

I dont know anyone who is on the pill its femeston isnt it? . Is it true that larger doses are needed as by the time its been metabolised by the liver theres less available? I need to research the tablets a bit more as I know very little about them.

Thank you.x