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[Hurdity]

I think so Birdy. GPs would not necessarily be expected to know as much as we do about menopause since they are having to keep up with everything, but at least should be humble enough to accept that some patients will actually know more than they do. I can see it can make them feel uncomfortable....

"Mad pussy disease" I love this!!!

Tc - I quite agree that research needs to continue. The original trials for any form of medication do not seem to be lengthy, nor involved very large numbers of people from what I can see, for obvious reasons. However in order to progress once the medication is released onto the market, then further trials need to be carried out. There is the MHRA scheme for reporting adverse side effects but I don't think this scheme would pick up women who experienced a side effect  more frequently than the trial found. Unfortunately accumulation of anecdotal evidence is not scientific even though individuals can vouch for a particualr effect. Whether funding can be found for future trials is another matter.  It is a minefield!

Sheanie - did I see you are doing a presentation on HRT - that's great - are you a health professional? The best place to look for info first is probably not individual papers as these can be contradictory - but the review papers or consensus statements that have pulled together all the current info - and then refer back to the papers. There are seminal studies too! British Menopause Society would be the best starting point. The last paper produced about HRT which included breast cancer was 2016 - BMS and Women's Health Concern which you can find here: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2053369116680501.  Also the NICE Guidelines - the detailed guidance which underpinned the recommendations. You can find this here: https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng23/evidence I haven't read any of this! I am sure there are later review papers too....

Michelemabelle - also re the vag prog thing. In fact contrary to what your gyane said, utrogestan is manufactured to be taken orally or vaginally - it is only in the UK that it is only licesned for oral use as part of HRT ( but the 200 mg capsules is now only licesned or rather marketed, for vaginal use for infertility.  You will see the database of medicines (the base de donneespublique des medicaments) it is listed as: "UTROGESTAN 100 mg, capsule molle orale ou vaginale " - similarly for 200 mg. In the info it gives the indication for vaginal route, amongst other uses, if sidie effects are experienced with oral use:

"Dans toutes les autres indications de la progestérone, la voie vaginale représente une alternative à la voie orale en cas:

· d'effets secondaires dus à la progestérone (somnolence après absorption par voie orale).   "

In all other indications of progesterone, the vaginal route respresents an alternative to the oral route in the case:
.. of  side effects due to the progesterone (sleepiness after absorption by the oral route).

http://base-donnees-publique.medicaments.gouv.fr/affichageDoc.php'specid=61673424&typedoc=R



Hurdity x

[Sheanie]

Thank you, Hurdity!!! I have saved your advice on a doc entitled 'Tips from Hurdity'! 

No, I'm not a health professional. But I've an academic background and am used to reading research papers, scientific ones included, so I feel hopeful that I can put this together. I only started on HRT a few months ago, and am finding it so beneficial that I'd like to spread the word. I talk about HRT to pretty much all the women I come across who might be peri or post menopausal, partly because I'm curious about their experiences and party because I want to make them aware of the benefits of HRT. (I'm thinking of getting a T shirt that says 'I ♥️ HRT'  ) So often the conversation develops out of them saying how tired they are.... I find so many of them are worried about taking HRT, see it as a last resort should things get really bad. I mention the benefits re BMD, etc. then. IMO HRT isn't just about negating the really bad effects of the menopause; it's also about your long term health. A friend suggested I did a talk with a group of women later in the summer, so I'm putting that together. I want to research the risks and benefits very carefully so I give an accurate picture.

Yes, I'm finding that individual papers are contradictory. It's normal in research, I guess..... I'm currently printing everything out and filing it, so I can go through it all more methodologically, instead of jumping from one to the other online, which never works for me, creating my own review of all the evidence. Thank you for the links. I'll start with the reviews, as you suggest. I've got a few months to do this. Doing this for myself too really, so I know I've made the right choices and also so that when my GP tries to take me off HRT, I can blind her with science. 

S xx

[Wrensong]

Tc, your anger was justified & I'm chuffed for you your self belief came to the fore.  It's sad, frustrating & infuriating whenever we're put in a situation of confrontation over something we need & deserve help with.  Especially at a time when circumstances beyond our control make us vulnerable.  I find it outrageous that there's not more professional understanding of this phase in our lives from those we have no choice but to go to for help.  When we come up against a power imbalance that impedes progress, preventing us getting on with our lives, it can feel hopeless, but I never let it go if it feels justified to push.  Can't help feeling we shouldn't have to do this, but I dress to impress (not talking power suits, whatever makes me feel most confident on the day - favourite old jeans if I think it will be to my advantage to go in feeling really relaxed), gen up to be sure I can hold my own & take in relevant documentation to back up my points. 

Sorry, this should really be on your other thread about the horrible GP consultation, but it's a reply to your comment on here.

[Katejo]

So what's it all about then, this drama and overreaction from doctors and meno experts, when we show that we've done some research? Are they just being touchy as they fear being found to know less than they should?

Perhaps some of them think that we aren't capable of finding factual/reliable sources and think that we get it all from Google. 1 GP ticked me off for looking up anything myself (not to do with menopause on that occasion).

[CLKD]

I think too, that many don't read HRT as what it really is: 'replacement therapy'  - and many don't want to 'give in' to treatments  .  I was the same when first told I require anti-depressant medication for Life but once I accepted it DH and I have fun again.  Also, one doesn't have to remain on HRT for ever unless one can find a GP who will prescribe what is required and when.  It's the Trial and Error that can be so tiring at a time when we need help yesterday.

Networking never hurts.  Sharing experiences is essential whether it's beauty therapy or medical ....... one can listen, take notes and decide if what is suggested is appropriate at this moment in time.

[Sheanie]

Hey Stella,

I'm not easily convinced by anything. I am very much a doubting Thomas. I need to see the evidence and then try it for myself to be convinced. I've read up a lot on HRT, and the evidence supports the view that it IS good for long term health, for bone density as a clear example. The regime I chose after a fair bit of research and paying to see a consultant is pretty much working for me, so I guess I'm lucky. But if and when it doesn't work any more, I'll go all out to find something that does. I was rock bottom a few months ago, and I'm not going back there!

Re women going to their GPs and being told no, well, I think women need to be empowered by being better informed so they don't have to take no for an answer. My GP was positive if not as well informed as I'd have liked, but I would have fought it out if I'd been told no. Louise Newson is endeavouring to educate GP's re HRT, but IMO this also has to come from the bottom up, from the customers, from us women.

I referred to body identical hormones, not bio-identical. (The former are available on the NHS in the form of patches and gel for oestrogen and Utrogestan for progesterone. As I understand it, the latter is the kind of stuff being made up to supposedly meet personal requirements by specialist pharmacies.) There is research evidence that body identical are safer than the synthetic forms (re breast cancer), as there is that transdermal delivery is safer (re thrombosis). I'm digging deeper into this right now, but the basic message seems clear. Sorry they don't seem to have worked for you. I hope you found or will find another way. But I think it's right that women are made aware of what's available and the evidence behind the claims that these products are safer than others so they can at least try them.

Based on my own experience, I am recommending that women consider HRT. So many are wary of even doing that because of all the negative hype back in the early part of the century following the WHI study. That's such a shame as I am sure many, though I guess not all, would find that, like me, it is a life saver!

S xx 

 

 

[CLKD]

Until the British Menopause Society get their Act together and arrange compulsory weekends dedicated solely to menopause to educate GPs, Practice Nurses, Consultants: women will remain up against it.  This Forum, Dr Newson, Dr Curry and our own lady who wrote 'me and my menopausal vagina' can't possible reach far enough, quickly enough to help ladies in crisis.  Like wading through treacle ......... occasionally the media mentions menopause and various 'celebrities' pop up ......... then it's forgotten.

We makes a good Team we does 

[Sheanie]

Until the British Menopause Society get their Act together and arrange compulsory weekends dedicated solely to menopause to educate GPs, Practice Nurses, Consultants: women will remain up against it.  This Forum, Dr Newson, Dr Curry and our own lady who wrote 'me and my menopausal vagina' can't possible reach far enough, quickly enough to help ladies in crisis.  Like wading through treacle ......... occasionally the media mentions menopause and various 'celebrities' pop up ......... then it's forgotten.

We makes a good Team we does 

Agreed. Hence my trying to set up a meeting/presentation here. I think others are too in other parts of the country. Menopause Rebellion! 

[CLKD]

I can't go to meetings due to anxiety 

[Ladybt28]

When I went to see my GP middle of 2018, she happened to mention that "they had all just had to go on a training course". Some of it obviously worked cos her approach to me that time was completely different to her approach on meno before especially around testosterone!  What I found more worrying really is that a female GP of a certain age needed to be "trained" in meno bearing in mind all her female patients had gone or were going to go through it and before a "the training day" her approach was in the dark ages...   Where had she been?  Didn't she read the newspapers or watch telly or read any of the info literature which goes across doctors desks everyday?  She didn't even have the excuse of "being a man"!

I reckon most of the patients any GP see's come in saying they are "tired, depressed, anxious and saying suddenly I don't feel well" and I can't work out that, why if they are female and between 40 and 50, there isn't a siren going off in the GP's head and their brain isn't yelling "meno, menopause, meno"!  Surely rule that out before anything else but I suppose that's just toooo simple?

There defo needs more research, I mean a lot of the drugs which were available seem to be being withdrawn but nothing coming in their place?  How is that going to work and it has been in the press about it affecting women badly because they are expected to be in the workplace longer now so there is an economic advantage to getting meno sorted quickly?  Maybe we need to stick our boobs to some railings or something?

[Perinowpost]

I've recently completed a menopause workshop with the company I work for and they've introduced a menopause policy. It has a clear directive for any problems you are struggling with + managers have attended (separately) so they know how to deal with issues. I do work for a really forward thinking company though (for the first time ever) and realise how lucky I am x

[CLKD]

Well done to that Company.  Were you able to be informative?

[Sheanie]

Yes, I saw 3 female GPs of a certain age at my surgery about HRT, and whilst they were all lovely and willing to prescribe what I asked for, they were not knowledgable. None of them had even heard of Utrogestan! Why? Half their patients have or will go through the menopause! And so have/will they.

I went to my GP a few years ago complaining of depression and was given anti-depressants, which I think is just the 'go to' response. But why, as you say Ladybt28, didn't he consider menopause. I am sure now I needed HRT!

Sticking boobs to railings. Good idea. You first. I'm right behind you! 

[CLKD]

Maybe because you complained of depression? 

Mine won't reach  ..... but if we went to a party game shop  surely large pink breasts are available?

[Ladybt28]

Gee thanks Sheanie!     Stick mine to railings, you could probably use me as a catapult!   
That group Extinction Rebellion had a large pink boat at Oxford Circus - you're in charge of the large pink breasts then CLKD..!lol
Do you think we could get on the News at Ten?

Perinowpost - that's really cool. Did you do the presentation or did they get someone in and what sort of people did they get in?