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[racjen]

Has anyone on here had success with CBT, for what's clearly hormonal anxiety? I know CBT can be very effective for anxiety which has its roots in emotional and/or cognitive factors, but I'm struggling to see how it can help with a physical problem. It's being offered to me for free so I'm perfectly willing to give it a go, but I just don't see how changing my thought patterns is going to affect what my hormones are inflicting on my mind....

[Kathleen]

Hello racjen.

I am considering trying this  on the basis that I may as well explore a treatment I haven't tried yet because clearly the ones I have tried have all come up short!  I think  CBT gets mixed reviews but it only has to help one person, ie you , so worth a try possibly. If I go ahead with it I will update the forum for the benefit of other ladies.

Wishing you well and please let us know your decision


K.

[Tempest]

Racjen and Kathleen, it has to be worth a go! I'm still on the waiting list for trauma therapy - the wait is particularly long for this as the course of treatment can be for 12 to 18 months of weekly sessions. I still see my psychiatrist fortnightly.

He and I have had many, many chats about what can and can't help the nervous system to recover from both physical and psychological trauma. Pretty much anything that can help bring the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system back into balance is going to help to re-balance stress hormones.

The menopause causes huge shifts in the HPA axis, as does stress and significant trauma. As the two share common ground, it makes sense that tackling the situation holistically (in the truest sense) could be most helpful.

I have certainly see online CBT for menopause to help symptoms - it's free, so let me see if I can find a link.....xxxx

[Tempest]

Ah! Here we go - I actually saw this from the patient arm of The British Menopause Society's website - it's definitely worth a good read:

https://www.womens-health-concern.org/help-and-advice/factsheets/cognitive-behaviour-therapy-cbt-menopausal-symptoms/

ETA: Upon reading it further, I've actually found some reassuring words about my panicky hot flushes and why they are so bad after surgical menopause. Bonus!😊

xxxx

[racjen]

Hmmm, kind of illustrates what I mean though - it maintains that anxiety isn't in itself a physical menopausal symptom, but that menopause happens at a time when there's a lot of other stress too, so identifying and challenging anxious thoughts can help. My anxiety isn't triggered by anxious thoughts - it's a physical feeling and in fact it's the other way round - when I have the bad physical feeling any thought, even the most benign one, can make me feel anxious. I'll still try it if it's offered, as you say if it's free it's worth a try, but I just can't see how it fits with the hormonal profile of this type of anxiety, and I don't want to get into a situation where I'm battling with a health professional who's determined it's all in my head. I've had EMDR for post-traumatic stress and it was very helpful for the distress caused by various life events, but it didn't make the slightest difference to the anxiety, and I had a hard time convincing the therapist that that was because it's a physical thing - felt like he just didn't really believe me.

[Golden retriever]

Hi all
I find reflexology is fab for relieving stress. I know it's a bit pricey but after 6 weekly appointments switch to every 2 weeks.
I know it sounds a cliche but it is sooo important to excercise. I'm not talking about a full 5 mile run but even to just get out in the air and do something different helps to calm anxiety.
I lost my dog during the summer and was in an awful state. I am not married or have any children. The reality of my early menopause hit me like a ton of bricks.
What got me through it was walking/running the park run and planning for new beginnings.
Hope this helps xxx

[dangermouse]

I'm a CBT therapist and it won't deal with pure physical anxiety, only thought-driven.

I've been reading today about the Alpha-Stim device which I may get for my practice. It's cranial electromagnetic stimulation for anxiety, depression, pain etc, a step up from TENS. It does seem very effective according to all the research I've done today in promoting alpha waves and I know the NHS are trialing it for anxiety treatment.

It can also be combined with EMDR for trauma therapy.

[Annie0710]

I paid privately for hypnotic cbt-  it definitely didn't cure me but maybe helped a tad, but not enough to get me being to where I wanted to be in myself x

[Tempest]

Racjen, I wanted to show you this thread from Hystersisters:

https://www.hystersisters.com/vb2/showthread.php't=788765

THIS is the type of anxiety you and I experience, isn't it? See - someone else gets it! We're NOT crazy!!

I hope this helps to validate what you're feeling. I know it did me! Now - how do we sort out this mess?? xxxx

[CLKD]

racjen - many years ago I was in a session and the therapist insisted that I *HAD* to have a thought B4 anxiety struck.  Well nope actually and I walked out. You R the first person that gets it! 

As an update which may help someone, my panic attacks are triggered by physical feelings, usually nausea when my body is hungry.  So I have to eat B4 my body needs energy.  Which when I feel well I can easily forget to do, like last night: I knew I was hungry but didn't bother searching the cupboard, this morning I felt awful.  Now had I taken a handful of dried fruits and nuts to bed to nibble .......... 

My emergency bag holds: bananas, dried fruits and nuts, a bottle of 'coke', Rich T biscuits, ginger biscuits, and I have buns in the pantry when at home.

CBT didn't work for me.  My anxiety began within moments of being born as I was intubated.  So having popped out and then suffering strange hands around my face ........ I became anorexic at age 3 with panic attacks, diagnosed at 5.  The Dr told Mum that I would 'grow out of it'.  Still waiting!

GR - sorry about the loss of your dog, was it that she died rather than disappeared  .   

Sorting out the mess is difficult.  Whilst I remain in my comfort zone with a regular routine I am usually OK.  However, we have chosen to travel to Leamington to see the pro-cyclists run into the end of the Stage, already my guts are churning ...... .  We know where to park.  There are good eateries.  We know where the loos are ..........

Relaxation therapy has, in the past, helped but it was remembering to practice  and usually when I sat down to listen to the tapes a    would join me and we would sleep.  Music has always helped, I listen when I take an emergency pill and wait.  Gentle walking if I can get away from people has been useful. 

[racjen]

Tempest, right now I'm really scared that it's going to get the better of me before we find any solution and I'll take an overdose just to get away from it. Trouble is, months and months of this have dragged me down into major depression as well; feel like my life isn't worth living anymore, which is awful considering I went thru all that treatment to survive cancer, and I have two daughters who depend on me, but this is living hell.

I have an appointment to see a consultant gynaecologist tomorrow, referred at last by my GP, but I know nothing about her, it's not a specialist menopause clinic and I'm terrified she won't get it either and just try and fob me off with ADs and CBT. If that happens it really could push me over the edge. I'm sitting here sobbing as I write this cos I just want my life back, but it's not happening and everything is falling apart.

[Tempest]

Racjen, I hear you! It's been 3 and a half years for me now, some of it ok but lately really not (but then i'm not on any HRT).

Please, please give this appointment a fair go. I have a similar couple of appointments coming up in the next 2 weeks. We can't give up - and I SERIOUSLY want to tell you that although the surgical menopause can be the most hideously brutal thing that can ever be inflicted on a woman, there is a way through. I still very, very much believe that.

You're not mad, you're not crazy. You do need a thorough review of your HRT to see what can be changed. For instance, an estrogen dose that is too high can cause awful feelings of panic - I remember Diane Danzbrink telling me that even a 75mcg patch made her feel very anxious until Dr Panay added 100mcg Utro. every other evening to her regime. It's finding balance that is key - balance that YOU feel good with - it can take time but please don't think this is forever even though it has seemed like an eternity already. I know your pain - I've lived it and continue to live it, partly because I became very stubborn and mistrusting and wanted to believe that this would all just go away by itself. I was very, very foolish.

Please do feel free to PM me any time - I probably know every feeling you're experiencing. I hope we can can get through this, one step at a time, hopefully together if you'd like.

Much love. xxxx

[bramble]

Hi Racjen and I am sorry you are feeling so unwell. I tried CBT as it was offered by my GP but despite quite a few visits it did nothing to help. I have also tried hypnotherapy, EFT, weekly reiki sessions, Swedish massage, herbal supplements, vitamin supplements - you name it I have tried it. In my case, I am better now because of two things - age (it has been about 12 years now since it started) and some prescriptions meds. When I say better, I don't mean that I am better, better, but am at the point where I can manage the day to day stuff fairly easily. I will never go off abroad again on my own...…….or go off for a days shopping in a crowded city. I still get anxious occasionally but usually it is about particular things so I would call that 'normal' anxiety. Before, I was just 'anxious', to the point I could no longer function. 

I do so hope you can find something to help. It is a long lonely road and no-one ever understands exactly how you feel and it is so difficult to describe to someone who doesn't know you. I do remember one of the health professionals shutting me down when I said I thought it was related to menopause. I was told that was totally wrong, despite not having suffered from it until I hit my early fifties.

Good luck,
Bramble

[Tempest]

Dear Bramble,

I'm so sorry that you had that experience with a 'healthcare professional' (I use the phrase loosely)!

I am so, so angry that previously perfectly capable women who suddenly present with these symptoms in midlife are virtually accused of inflicting these symptoms upon themselves. We are still very much classed as 'the mad woman in the attic' - nothing has changed!

If anything, I hope this can encourage us to fight harder and be stronger so that we can rise above this so that our children's and grandchildren's generation don't have to suffer such appalling treatment. I have been told so many times myself that I should be able to lift myself out of this, that I have almost become brainwashed and it's not until I read other women's experiences that I realise that I am NOT doing this to myself! The last few days have really opened my eyes a lot with the posts I've read on here.

I am so glad Bramble that you are feeling more confortable now - and understand that we will all probably still feel the ripples of our experiences for the rest of our lives. Take care. xxxx

[Sgtvhilts]

Er, sorry to be a downer, but no.
I have had CBT , probably about 2 years worth over the years.  They always focus on getting  you to focus and analyse specific things, which is fine, BUT me oh no.
I have had anxiety since the day i ws born lol, but add hormones into the mix and a different beast.
I coudl never articulate my specific worries, mine were all just jumbled up, and racing like i'd taken anphetamines!. My spaghetti head i call it on account of never being able to untangle it and grabbing a specific worry.
It was medication for me every time, but i know people who have had great success
Try it it can do no harm