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[Letmein]

I'm convinced my health issues are affecting my thoughts, my GP is convinced it's the other way around

[CLKD]

Years ago as a meander: I lost my libedo.  GPs insisted it was depression.  Nope, I was depressed because I lacked any sex drive 

[dangermouse]

When I took the Diazepam I felt like I'd taken some kind of psychodelic drug. It was terrifying.  Although I did have a similar experience with codeine... I am a bit of a coward custard when it comes to pharmaceuticals!

Yes it is annoying when anxiety is all lumped together and when GPs see anxiety listed as a symptom of menopause, I can imagine many of them assuming it's always psychological. It would be better to also list ‘Adrenaline surges' as some may have one or the other and some may have both.

[Letmein]

What makes it difficult in my case too, is that I think my -odd  and psychosomatic- symptoms of anxiety seem to express themselves quite some time after the event of high anxiety. For instance, I felt quite anxious Sunday evening and Monday as I went back to work after a week off, but was feeling quite well. Yesterday, I was back in the swing of things, having quite a good day at work, but the symptoms hit me around lunchtime. Of course, that triggered anxiety and feeling dreadful today too. It's a vicious circle!

[CLKD]

Could your body have been hungry - mid morning dip can trigger anxiety.  It was 4.00 p.m. that I found difficult, that hour B4 our evening meal.  ReadyBrek solved the problem.

[Nita5691]

Its really interesting reading all your responses on this topic. I definitely think the lead up to being in full menopause messes with your mind. Its very difficult to explain to people exactly what is going on, but I always say its like someone else has jumped into your mind  and you get a bit out of control. Feelings of anxiety, panic, dread, mood swings and paranoid about anything and everything. Its only really since I was told I was approaching menopause that these symptoms started, never suffered with anything like it before. I was told that your hormones naturally decrease, and can fluctuate the deeper you get into approaching menopause. Even if
Taking HRT I think the hormones must battle against each other. Im currently taking Femoston 1/10 which worked well for a time, but the mind battle symptoms are increasing again, along with hot flushes coming back too. I definitely believe hormone imbalance plays a big part in how our mind works Lets hope these symptoms dont last too long Take care everyone Anita x

[Charys]

Hi all,

I'm sorry if I've not read all posts, and repeat things that others have said. This is a subject close to my heart (sadly) at the moment and I have a few perspectives on it. I always suffered badly from PMT from the time periods started, I would know a period was about to happen by the changes in my mood and anxiety levels. Then, after giving birth (the one and only time I did) I was hospitalised for many months with a post natal psychosis and depression. My consultant at the time said that my body didn't cope well with hormonal changes, particularly sudden ones, hence the onset of my immediate post natal problems. I was advised if I had another child that I would need some hormone therapy, and given the 'heads up' that at menopause time more than likely HRT. For the next 19 years...I went back to my usual pre-birth self. A propensity for anxiety, some PMT, but no mental health assistance needed and what I would consider to be a normal happy life. Then I had breast cancer (two years ago) and was put on tamoxifen following other treatments. Within a few weeks the oncologist took me off it, my mental changes were so severe that I was 'at risk'. If I was to ever try taking it again, and he advised not to, then I would need to be under the intervention of the mental health team. (See my pattern forming here LOL ?)
Ok, so, over the last two years perimeno has kicked in big-time. Irregular periods, heavy periods, assorted symptoms that many of you will understand in the lead up to 'the change'. What has been my main symptom? Astonishing and crippling anxiety, the sort where some days I can barely function to get through the day. I am now being referred for some mental health support. I personally believe my progesterone is low and I am oestrogen dominant from my own research, but a blood test confirmed nothing much, possibly according to my doctor, due to timing of it being taken.
So, anxiety to me is EVERYTHING to do with hormones. Some people are more prone to respond that way, but my own evidence (my GP is in agreement) is that it affects me hugely and therefore as I can't be alone in this, I'm sure many others too.

Charys x

[rebel2]

I can't decide if mine is hormone related or not.  It started out of the blue, literally, 4 years ago with a serious panic attack.  I was so naïve about anxiety/meno that I thought I was having a heart attack or stroke and went to the GP, who was very unsympathetic and never mentioned a panic attack.   But I researched and realised that the attacks coincided with stopping HRT suddenly [ironically because I thought it was causing mild anxiety!  I had taken it for about 6 months] and a fairly heavy night of drinking red wine.   All was well for about 2 months and then I got attack after attack and found them difficult to stop.   Thinking about it, I wasn't majorly stressed at the time, but had had three or four months of worry about a house move and a year before that a major and unpleasant career upheaval.   Like Letmein, my attacks appear on the surface to be random but are usually preceeded by a period of stress/worry that I get through on adrenaline, then my body seems to fall apart as a result as soon as things are fine again.   But I can't honestly say that HRT helps or hinders - I have tried with/without and the anxiety remains.  Although perhaps I need longer without, I've only ever done a couple of months and then given in due to hot flushes. 

I don't have panic attacks any more - anxiety now attacks my guts and follows a fairly set pattern of trapped wind/back ache/gurgling and burning stomach, then finally early morning waves of adrenaline that leave me shattered. 

So - is it meno caused or not?  I think it is related, but to be honest I have always been a glass half empty worrier, so perhaps lack of oestrogen just lowers my natural defences and lets it all in unchecked. 

[dangermouse]

Charys - check out Ray Peat's articles (or the forums and other people's more easy reading takes on it which can keep you busy on Google for hours!) re low progesterone / high oestrogen and anxiety. It's fascinating and also covers keeping blood sugar up to avoid physical anxiety and sorting your thyroid and adrenals.

I was surprised to read that oestrogen can stay high 4 years following the first missed period and the ratio of progesterone being less than 100 times oestrogen (the normal ratio) causes a lot of meno symptoms.

[This is just for those interested in looking it up, not to start a debate as I don't want to challenge anyone who is doing well with their oestrogen therapy. Opposing therapies can sometimes be just as successful!].

[Charys]

Thanks I've started looking based on your reply, and there is LOTS to read you are right if you go directly to his own articles. What I like about the sound of it, is that it gives you the feeling you can 'take back' some control with some judicious natural changes? Am I right ? I am certainly interested in what I've seen so far, I can't have oestrogen therapy anyhow.

[rebel2]

Interesting stuff.  But am confused - I suffered from endometriosis for years, resulting in a hysterectomy aged 40 and had many of the symptoms of oestrogen dominance.  I have long wondered if it contributed, or helped, my anxiety.  These articles suggest I might be oestrogen dominant [I still have my ovaries] so should I give up HRT??

[Letmein]

my attacks appear on the surface to be random but are usually preceeded by a period of stress/worry that I get through on adrenaline, then my body seems to fall apart as a result as soon as things are fine again

That's exactly it. It's once the adrenaline reduces that the symptoms come up and indeed on the surface it doesn't seem to make sense as the attack happen when you are starting to feel more at peace.

I don't know how related it is to hormonal changes, but I'm pretty sure it is related to advancing age and it feels to me that I don't cope as well with these adrenaline surges as I used to. What makes me think it is age related in addition to hormones is that my OH says he feels the same too. He used to not have a care in the world about anything, but now will get so focus on one small matter that really doesn't warrant being anxious about. He is aware of it, but says he can't help it, so it doesn't affect men too!

I had an adrenaline surge this morning as I had to do a presentation and meet people for the first time. I felt it at the time, than after that, was super efficient and feeling great. I'm now feeling the release of it and it is nice, but I wouldn't be one bit surprise if I suddenly start with one of my weird symptoms later tonight or tomorrow.

CLKD, I do find that eating something can sometimes help a bit but yesterday, it happened just as after I had my porridge!

[dangermouse]

Thats all to do with adrenals where you ride the stimulant hormones but then they crash and leave you a quivering wreck! Keeping blood sugar stable can help.

I was referring before to sudden surges in adrenaline that make you feel terrible as they go so high and are not in line with the situation, like fight or flight but trigered internally (rather than externally like a car about to hit you).

Rebel2 - if your HRT is helping you then it’s what you need, if it isn’t then try something else.

Yes being able to take back control is what I like too!

[racjen]

Charys, I'm really interested to read your experiences because I too had breast cancer, diagnosed nearly two years ago; following treatment (mastectomy, chemo and radiotherapy) I got severely depressed and suspected it was down to the sudden menopause. My cancer was triple negative so no tamoxifen or similar, I was started on continuous HRT and for the first 3 months or so things were really improving as my estrogen level was rising. Then I started to get bad side effects from the build up of progesterone (nausea, stomach pains and increasing depression) so had a break from the progesterone. Again things improved. Restarted progesterone after 6 weeks, and wham, I was suddenly hit by the most awful, crippling anxiety, fear, dread - always worst in the morning and gradually draining away as the day went on. Stopping progesterone has made no difference and my estrogen level is now very healthy; the only other culprit could be testosterone, which is very low too, but so far it hasn't made any difference (but then my SHBG is high so that could be inhibiting the action of the testosterone). I can't take ADs, beta-blockers or any other mood-altering drugs as they all make me suicidal; I'm currently under the care of the Mental Health Crisis Team so i do know exactly where you're coming from, it's all hormonal and it can make you feel so bad  you'd rather end it all. Hang on in  there, I don't know what the answer is yet but there's got to be one.....x

[Wilks]

I also agree with the majority. Anxiety is definitely caused by hormones (but can also have other causes). I had dreadful PMT for decades, and PND twice, then when I became perimenopausal a couple of years ago, it felt like permanent PMT.