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[GypsyRoseLee]

Yes. Back at the start of peri I noticed that my PMS was kicking in straight after ovulation and not finishing until my period ended. Some months I would only get, maybe, 7-10 good/normal days.

Then there were months where I don't think I really ovulated at all (though it felt like my body tried to) and the PMS was truly dreadful with accompanying very low depression and crippling anxiety.

I also went from having a medium, red flow for 5-6 days, to having just 3 days of heavy brown spotting with just a token flow of red for half a day.

[Machair]

Yes I have periods that are only brown spotting too- wonder if this is also caused by the hormones or lack of them that cause the prolonged PMT! Still I am not grumbling as it is better than the heavy ones I had when peri started a few years back.

[Machair]

Sparkle I also wonder too about what you say about the ongoing clear mucus and lack of ovulation. I have this too and it no longer appears mid month but at random, and actually seems to accompany my bad moods. May be it is a reaction as you say to raised oestrogen levels. This article may be very helpful http://www.bcendocrineresearch.com/newsletter/v01/n01/Perimenopause_s01.php

This article is also very helpful
http://www.cemcor.ubc.ca/resources/perimenopause-time-%E2%80%9Cendogenous-ovarian-hyperstimulation%E2%80%9D

[Machair]

I think that makes perfect sense as it is mentioned in the article I posted a link to - here is part of it!

"Perimenopausal changes are similar to changes caused by some infertility treatments. In vitro fertilization (IVF) requires laparoscopic surgery (through a small tube in the abdomen) to suck up ovarian egg cells that are nearly ready to ovulate so they can be grown and fertilized in a laboratory and then injected into the woman's uterus. In order to collect the maximum number of eggs, gynecologists override inhibin using a technique called “ovarian hyper-stimulation.” The woman is given daily injections of FSH until many follicles have been stimulated and estrogen levels are very high. She is then injected with another hormone (much like luteinizing hormone [LH], another pituitary hormone that stimulates the ovary) to mimic the normal mid-cycle LH surge and this triggers ovulation."

Maybe we are getting closer to understanding what is happening to some of us! Hope you are ok today. I am rubbish - very PMT like- although I was stuck in the car for 9 hours yesterday going there and back to see my daughter in Wales. I adore her, but not motorways for miles and miles feeling like this!

[BrightLight]

I am relating to all this. I also read this article this morning that explains that sometimes the symptoms of low estrogen are in fact relative to having high estrogen for a while and then it drops and you get withdrawal symptoms. So that overall estrogen is dominant as progesterone is most likely non existent as the body tries harder and harder to ovulate! I certainly feel 'full' to burst at times, literally....water retention, fast flow periods and raging emotions. So much effort the body is going through, it makes sense to me how overwhelming it can feel with all this imbalance going on x

http://www.bcmj.org/article/clearing-confusion-about-perimenopause

[Babsm67]

I have the same problem that GypsyRoseLee mentioned about - the PMS seems to start around the time of ovulation then finally finishes as my period ends. The PMS always used to finish as my period started but not any more.  The gynae gp I saw last month suggested using oestrogel for the second half of the month to lift my mood but I have noticed no difference so far, only bloating? (Very early days yet, though).  Some mornings my mood is so low that I find it a struggle to get out of bed (I am 48 & peri with very heavy periods for first two days then it decreases rapidly).  I get one 'good' week per month.

[20032003]

I have the same problem that GypsyRoseLee mentioned about - the PMS seems to start around the time of ovulation then finally finishes as my period ends. The PMS always used to finish as my period started but not any more. 

Me, too... I used to feel so good when my period started but now that is sometimes my WORST day...

[Machair]

Just wondering Sparkle do you feel worse when you notice the ongoing clear mucus discharge? I am wondering now whether this is days of higher then normal oestrogen caused by FSH trying to stimulate ovulation, and getting no joy if you see what I mean? Since normally this clear mucus should stop after ovulation, the ongoing signs of it probably indicates that ovulation didn't take place. I think this may be making me moody and confusing the picture making me think it is PMT.
I did ask Mrs Minkin the lovely Gynae who answers questions on Webmd, and she said that it is often impossible to differentiate PMT from perimenopause as the symptoms are similar. Eventually as we go further along hopefully this will all cease!

[Machair]

Well Sparkle I am reasonable despite getting up at 6am and yes a poor night sleep with hubby snoring again!
I have still got this PMT type feeling going on, but am really thinking it isn't PMT but just repeated attempts to ovulate!
You sound a lot better- maybe the pink discharge will be all you get, my periods now are usually brown spotting for a week and only when I wipe mostly, so maybe we are heading to the end! Still got the ongoing mucus discharge today - hence the bad mood, but it has lifted slightly so maybe a period will eventually happen!

[GypsyRoseLee]

I think it's true that often there's no real border between peri menopause and extreme PMS.

Back in the day my PMS was quite severe each month but pretty standard. So, I would feel grumpy and irritable 5-7 days before my period was due, then would immediately feel much better and return to normal as soon as my period started.

But a 2-3 years ago all that changed. The PMS started kicking in right after ovulation. Instead of the usual grumpy irritabity, I began feeling very depressed and hopeless inside and convinced I didn't love my DH anymore.

But these feelings didn't lift when my period started. They lasted right through until about day 5-6 of my cycle. So basically my new PMS was lasting nearly 3 weeks of each month. It was so debilitating and I felt I was only living half a life, or even a third of a life, really!

And my periods dwindled to just heavy brown spotting that was only really there when I wiped too.

[Machair]

That is so helpful GypsyRoseLee - thank you so much. Yes this is really the same way I feel. Do you mind me asking how old you are and if you are in late or early peri? Do you feel better on hormonal therapy?

[GypsyRoseLee]

I am 45. Looking back my PMS started to change dramatically maybe 3-4 years ago? I know it was definitely more than 3 years ago that I had to start planning my social life around my menstrual cycle and try not to plan anything much in the 2nd half of my cycle, or during my actual period, because I knew I wouldn't be able to enjoy anything at all.

But, there had been definite warning signs as far back as 6 years ago, I think? I remember a summer holiday where I ruined the whole week with my totally irrational conviction that my lovely DH was plotting to divorce me. I broke down in tears several times and my poor DH was very confused (probably because I didn't tell him about my crazy suspicions). Then the minute my period started I felt perfectly fine again.

But it was exactly 2 years ago that one month my PMS didn't lift after my period finished. It just carried on and on, and brought new and horrible surges of anxiety/dread with it. It totally floored me and I was unable to cope, then pretty soon the insomnia started and that was when I made the first of many, many visits to see my GP.

I don't know if I am in early or late peri? Very early menopause runs strongly in my family. One close relative was only 28 when she went through menopause. Another was only 38. I don't know about my Mum because she had a surgical menopause at 43. But in the 2-3 years running up to her hysterectomy she suffered with inexplicable anxiety and depression, which magically disappeared after her operation and she went onto HRT.

Back in the Spring I started HRT. Just a 25mg patch with separate Utrogestan. It didn't do a thing to help. I increased the patch to 50mg, and things improved slightly. But after 4 months I was still getting far too many bad days/weeks so swapped to the BCP. My GP explained that as I was still relatively 'very young' HRT just wasn't nearly as potent enough to control my symptoms. The first brand I tried was Microgynon, the cheapest type (with the most androgenic progesterone, so most likely to cause spotting, greasy hair, acne etc) There was a definite overall improvement, but I had constant spotting every day and quite a few facial spots.

So a month ago I swapped to Gederal (Marvelon) and within days I felt so much better, it was untrue. Mood much more positive and stable. Skin really clear and smooth (I'm not joking, my skin feels like silk and hasn't looked this good since I was 17). No more brown spotting. It really has been a life saver. 

[GypsyRoseLee]

Machair, just to add that Gederal (Marvelon) has better tolerated progesterone than most BCPs, and is well known for giving you nice skin and shiny hair again, anyway.

[Machair]

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply GypsyRoseLee, and I am just so glad that you are feeling so much better now. I wish you all the best and hope your future is brighter now!

[BrightLight]

Just wanted to add to the thoughts from Machair about the clear mucus thing - I have had this - copious amounts and it has always been accompanied by the symptoms I now recognise as horrific versions of my 'old' mild PMT symptoms - for me, that is water retention, bloating, general digestive issues, rage, anxiety etc and it carries on throughout the period that eventually happens and yes, it is often blood mixed in with the mucus - I think this is definately estrogen having an action all on it's lonesome.