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[GypsyRoseLee]

Agree with you Briony.

What strikes me most as rather 'silly' is repeatedly posting veiled sneers about HRT on a forum where many women have chosen to take HRT?

What purpose is it meant to achieve other than annoyance and often hurt feelings?

[TheDuchess]

But those statements you refer to are usually true!
Many women do suffer for decades and many women do have long term ill health through oestrogen deficiency.

This is not scaremongering.

No one is suggesting women take HRT if they are symptom-free. HRT is for women with short and medium term symptoms, and in some women under 60 it can be used to treat osteoporosis if other treatments are unsuitable. (There are a lot of people who have terrible side effects with bisphosphonates used instead of HRT to treat osteoporosis , including jaw deformity & fractures, and gastro-intestinal damage.)

[TheDuchess]

I  still think that asking if a 'highly cynical poster' would avoid cancer treatment in the same way they would have concerns about hrt, is not only silly but downright insulting. Cancer sufferers are in a different league to women going through the menopause, hence my response.

Insulting? Maybe some posters are getting annoyed because the illogical nature of the posting is being exposed.

If the argument is 'are pharma companies honest or not' then this applies to all research and all treatments surely.
There are people who refuse chemo because of its unpleasant side effects and often negative outcomes- Linda Bellamy perhaps?

More women die from oestrogen-deficiency-induced disease, which may be prevented by HRT, than caused by it.

Is it right to minimise the menopause and scorn at research/ treatment by saying cancer is in a different league? We ALL know of someone who has had cancer ; some choose chemo, some don't. Some die with chemo, some recover without.

I don't know where this conversation is going because although it was about the validity of research (into HRT) some posters now want to make it into a competition of 'oh this illness is worse, so integrity of research doesn't matter.'

[TheDuchess]

Ah thanks Teresa. I think people maybe get a bit frustrated when people ask for advice on alternatives because it's such an individual response- a lot of it doesn't work and is aimed at women who are afraid of HRT (or who can't use it) and there is little proof it works. I'm all in favour of alternatives if they work, but the research so far is patchy. If women want to try it, fair enough, but as long as that choice is well -informed and not based on bad press for HRT from 20 years back!

[GypsyRoseLee]

Again have to agree with Duchess in that a lot of posts on here from very cynical posters clearly haven't been well thought through or had any logic applied to them. And when others have politely pointed this out there is then annoyance which is presumably masking some embarrassment?

There's no denying that this forum is heavily orientated toward HRT and medical intervention for menopause. I assume this is because it was created and is now run by doctors who believe in empirical results?

There are plenty of other menopause sites run by people with no formal medical qualifications whatsoever, and which offer many 'alternatives' to HRT.

[TheDuchess]

But pharmacists are just people like the rest of us! They have opinions. Your friend is lucky. I'm unclear if your friend is 58 AND a pharmacist or these are two different people?
If she was suffering she'd take HRT I expect. This is the whole point- why suffer and have a poor quality of life when you don't need to? No one takes HRT lightly, we think very very hard before choosing to and constantly re-consider if it's the right choice.

[skkb]

Oh gosh, I seem to have started a bit of a storm with this post.....very interesting though. Can anyone tell me when the NICE report will be published and where I will find it? I am going back to chat to my doctor, he's very sympathetic. I have been off HRT now for almost a year but confess life has been pretty miserable a lot of the time and I'm thinking I will restart it. I'm now 65 and have suffered memo symptoms since 52. They completely disappeared whilst taking HRT and I felt so well. I was scared by reports and doctors into stopping.....I wish I hadn't. I was taking the lowest dose three times a week and it was working. Sometimes my internal heat is so great I really feel like I will spontaneously combust, my face and chest are beetroot and sweat trickles down my back...I truly think I will pass out because of the intense heat....it can happen anywhere, driving, in the supermarket, restaurant etc...!! I never thought it would go on this long 😥😪

[TheDuchess]

That's their choice- you do what's right for you. If they want to suffer, fair enough. Their symptoms may simply not be that bad- who knows?

I have a lot of respect for pharmacists, but I don't agree totally with your friend.
Symptoms have to be bad enough to affect quality of life and for most women using HRT this means without it they'd not be able to work (efficiently or so well) due to lack of sleep or maybe anxiety as well as the hot flushes and sweats.

None of my friends are using HRT but that's because their symptoms were not that bad. I am also the only one still working.

[GypsyRoseLee]

Teresa, oh dear. Your friend is very lucky to not even need to take aspirin, ever. But most of us are more human than that.

None of my friends are going through what I have suffered with for the last 2 years, and probably won't do for another 10 years still. I started perimenopause quite young.

Agree it is down to severity. Some symptoms are just crippling, either physiologically or psychologically, so why suffer?

[Winterose]

This is a good discussion .. I have taken HRT for 8 years and have no intention ( health allowing ) of stopping.  I run my own business and without HRT would have become a jibbering idiot through lack of sleep and anxiety having never suffered from either of these issues before.  Suspect my marriage would have also suffered.  I also took the BCP for many years but taking these drugs does not stop me from keeping on top of all the research. Am also aware that pharmaceutical companies remove the guinea pigs who early on are having side effects  to a drug while it is being tested. Their side effects are not then part of the study. The studies cost vast amounts of money and most of us who have pensions are probably invested in them so we too are happy for them to make large sums of money . We just need a healthy interest and not take everything at face value - then make a balanced decision.  As I said earlier alcohol is a far greater danger than HRT but we all seem to slug that back - soon be g and t time - have a happy weekend everyone

[GypsyRoseLee]

Quite right Winterose. How many of the cynics on here who mutter so darkly about the risks of HRT, cheerfully knock back 2-3 glasses of wine of an evening? Or deliberately ignore the fact their scales are telling them they are 2 stone overweight?

Both of the above carry far higher risk factors than taking HRT.

[TheDuchess]

well that just shows how different everyone is. I am juggling two adult children, a husband, elderly ill parents, and a job that is intellectually demanding. I only work part time but I'm self employed, so no work = no money.

[Briony]

Yes I understand that but I struggle to find much about alternatives and healthy lifestyles.maybe that's a different type of forum..maybe a different outlook.maybe I'm trying to justify to myself why I don't use hrt..yet :)I've just noticed that posts about herbal aids,vitamins exercise etc are sometimes met with a negativity that hrt doesn't get.I do enjoy your posts duchess by the way

I can see what you're getting at and always try to qualify what I write with an  'I appreciate it's a personal choice' kind of comment. Trouble is, it's such a sensitive issue that sometimes you can write something, trying to be helpful, and not realise how you have come across. 

I think one of the reasons some of us on here, especially the younger ones (for whom the hrt risk is much lower) are less positive about alternative techniques is that we've spent so much time and money on them with so little improvement.  It particularly frustrates me when people suggest exercise as a way of coping, as for some of us, we've had to give up exercising because of our symptoms.    I spent not far off £500 on physio and osteo appointments in a desperate hope it would cure things,ditto pilates, expensive herbal remedies and high dose vitamin d on a private prescription. I did all of this in the desperate hope it would mean I wouldn't have to succumb to hrt or the pill - I literally trawled the internet looking for the next remedy or a genuine example of how someone my age with similar symptoms had had great success from a natural remedy.
Unfortunately, I didn't find it.
 - What I did find instead was this site and  people who understood my situation and eased my 'guilt' about tasking hrt; finding  a lovely, level headed GP who helped me get things in perspective and make an informed choice about my medication was the icing on the cake.

Whatever route you decide to take, natural or otherwise, I hope you find a solution that works for you. Perhaps the only thing we can all agree on in this thread is the fact that hormones can be damned horrid!

[Dorothy]

It comes down to personal choice in the end - weighing up the risks v quality of life with/without any treatment.  I would love to be able to chuck my BCP packs away, but I know if I do, I will have very little quality of life, and as I am low-risk, I keep taking my pills!

The most important thing is not to make ourselves or anyone else feel guilty for the choices we make.  I have a friend in her 30s who is suffering from VA and refusing to take anything - she is quite smug about the fact that she hasn't 'given in' to HRT.  I am really worried about her, but I respect her right to make her own decision, even though I don't agree with it.  And I won't let her attitude toward my treatment make me feel guilty. 

As other posters have commented, there is too much guilt put on women full stop.  I have a friend who was crippled by guilt after both her children were born, because a) she had to have C-sections instead of natural birth and b) she was unable to breastfeed.  Women who had 'achieved' both really made her feel like a failure, but she is fit and well and raising two happy, healthy, well-behaved and adorable children, so where's the failure?  Likewise, if you can manage the menopause without assistance, that is brilliant, but if you need some help to live life as fully as possible, you haven't 'failed', you've just taken a different path.   

[Briony]

It comes down to personal choice in the end - weighing up the risks v quality of life with/without any treatment.  I would love to be able to chuck my BCP packs away, but I know if I do, I will have very little quality of life, and as I am low-risk, I keep taking my pills!

The most important thing is not to make ourselves or anyone else feel guilty for the choices we make.  I have a friend in her 30s who is suffering from VA and refusing to take anything - she is quite smug about the fact that she hasn't 'given in' to HRT.  I am really worried about her, but I respect her right to make her own decision, even though I don't agree with it.  And I won't let her attitude toward my treatment make me feel guilty. 

As other posters have commented, there is too much guilt put on women full stop.  I have a friend who was crippled by guilt after both her children were born, because a) she had to have C-sections instead of natural birth and b) she was unable to breastfeed.  Women who had 'achieved' both really made her feel like a failure, but she is fit and well and raising two happy, healthy, well-behaved and adorable children, so where's the failure?  Likewise, if you can manage the menopause without assistance, that is brilliant, but if you need some help to live life as fully as possible, you haven't 'failed', you've just taken a different path.   

Wise words, Dorothy