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[GypsyRoseLee]

Hi dogdoc

I think our peri menopause symptoms are very similar aren't they? They present more as anxiety/depression rather than hot flushes etc.

I am glad (well I'm not, but you know what I mean) that your mood changes are as incredibly swift. I suspect a few people won't believe me because it sounds so far fetched. But at 6pm yesterday I reached down to get something out of my briefcase feeling utterly wretched, and by the time I had straightened back up and put my papers on the desk I felt perfectly fine.

On Prof. Studd's website he voices concerns over women being incorrectly diagnosed as bi-polar, when really they just have hormonal anxiety/depression.

[CLKD]

I don't believe that anyone is likely to be late diagnosed with manic depression unless they are not in a normal social situation when symptoms could be missed.  It is a condition which will manifest itself in the teens and can be hormonally linked, as can schizophrenia, particularly in young men.  By the time we reach our 50s bi-polar will have been noted as I don't think people can hide such alterations and mood swings.

I do know that hormones can cause ladies to commit murder - it happened in the 1990s in Northamptonshire and Dr Dalton stood in Court for her.  I have also seen how PND affects new Mums

[GypsyRoseLee]

It is beyond wonderful 

To feel yourself spontaneously smiling again. To find yourself laughing at something funny your friend says. To be perfectly relaxed (and even looking forward to it a bit) that your DH is going out this evening. Well, I can't tell you how wonderful it is again.

This time 36 hours ago I was in a very, very dark and scary place. I think it's the dangerous sort of place where you really, really shouldn't spend too much time because if you do then bad things could start to happen.

I think it's the place my friend's husband lived in for a few months before taking his own life  I didn't understand how he could. Now I can. 

[Kathleen]

Hello GypsyRoseLee.

I have certainly experienced my mood turning on a sixpence ( 0ooh there's me showing my age ). Mine would often occur around 9pm after a day of feeling grotty I'd suddenly be fine, in fact better than fine and I'd then wonder what all the earlier fuss was about.
Lately though my mood changes more slowly and I see it coming, like a storm approaching.

I hope your good time lasts and I wish you well.

K.   
   

[GypsyRoseLee]

You're right CLKD.

I think Prof. Studd is talking about women in their teens/twenties who are diagnosed as bi-polar but very likely have hormonal anxiety/depression instead.

I know what you mean about PND. A friend of my Mum tried to kill herself and her baby back in the 60s. It's very likely she had PND but it wasn't talked about then.

I had PND but genuinely never wanted to hurt myself or my baby. Instead I just desperately wanted someone to invent a time machine so I could travel back in time and just not get pregnant. I actually started reading science journals hoping for good news. This is 100% true. Safe to say I wasn't hugely rational at the time 

[CLKD]

I had PND and high levels of anxiety when I bought a puppy - all that sudden responsibility following weeks of anticipation, adrenaline fuelled 'highs'  - and that anxiety lasted for 14 years  .

I found that around 8.30 p.m. my mood would lift.  No more commitments.  No more having to eat.  No more ……. I had to learn not to say 'yes' to anything int he evening because the next morning, anxiety would cause HUGE problems. 

I never wanted to die but to sleep until the pain went away.

[honeybun]

If someone is having such dark thoughts then surely some kind of help is needed.....ADs for example.

Feeling like this, hormonal or not, should surely be counted as very serious and medical help is needed sooner rather than later.

Honeybun
X

[GypsyRoseLee]

But what do you do honeybun if you only feel this dark for a few days before feeling normal again? And then feel normal for a few weeks before another dark time?

If it was all the time then I would seriously consider ADs. But I was on ADs last year for 8 months and my peri symptoms still broke through.

And I know from experience that ADs make me feel rather emotionally numb and robotic. So if I took them now they would mute and 'spoil' even my 'good' days to some extent. The last thing I want. The hope I cling to on bad days is the knowledge that good days will come back.

But if HRT doesn't improve my mood swings, and make them much less extreme then I will be looking into perhaps a different AD regime, or maybe the Pill.

 

[Greenfields]

But what do you do honeybun if you only feel this dark for a few days before feeling normal again? And then feel normal for a few weeks before another dark time?

If it was all the time then I would seriously consider ADs. But I was on ADs last year for 8 months and my peri symptoms still broke through.

And I know from experience that ADs make me feel rather emotionally numb and robotic. So if I took them now they would mute and 'spoil' even my 'good' days to some extent. The last thing I want. The hope I cling to on bad days is the knowledge that good days will come back.

But if HRT doesn't improve my mood swings, and make them much less extreme then I will be looking into perhaps a different AD regime, or maybe the Pill.

Perhaps the thing to do is to try things that are more holistic for the dark periods/days and if you can find something that works for those periods, then you can avoid ADs?  Like acupuncture, herbalism, exercise, meditation etc ?  I dunno whether it would work - its just a suggestion.  Perhaps your dark periods will become a particular monthly pattern - and then you would be forewarned and could perhaps plan a bit more around them?  I think whats hard (for me anyway) is when things come out of the blue unexpectedly.

[GypsyRoseLee]

You're absolutely right Greenfields. If my dark days started falling into a regular pattern then at least I could be prepared and take some precautions. Back in the day I used to get regular PMS, and I knew to take it easy for the 3-4 days before my period.

But with these peri symptoms they can appear/disappear so suddenly. I am never prepared and feel so helpless.

[Greenfields]

I wonder whether there are some techniques you can learn to create a safe 'container' to manage the emotional mood better so that you don't feel quite so buffeted and helpless when such dark moods arise?

For me, metta meditation helps - if I start to panic or feel unsafe, I just start silently saying the phrases and it helps soothe my mind - I still feel like utter shit but I can function at whatever I'm doing (just about!).

Are there any breathing techniques that you could explore that might help?

Or is there a homeopathic remedy you could take when these moods arise? (heck even if it's a placebo effect - if it works use it!)

I know it's really hard ... I am struggling a lot at the moment and trying to find my way as to what works best.

Hugs xxx

[BrightLight]

This also happens to me, though I am not using HRT.  Mine definately has a pattern, by that I mean, certain other symptoms come along when I am feeling a bit down and different ones when I am feeling more anxious.  I am still not convinced mine are solely due to hormone fluctuations and more a combination of my whole system being put to the test by the hormone changes. 

I've written on here before about my storng belief that adrenals and thryoid, our insulin resistence and immune system are all 'upset' by each other at this stage of life.  Some of my symptoms are clearly cycle related but others might not be and the GP's can't tell me either.  Hot flushes and vaginal dryness are still the main symptoms to indicate hormones lowering to a low low point. Before that happens they dip in and out of low and high and everywhere in between - with that said - I sometimes think of this period of time as an opportunity to manage mood better.  I came to this conclusion for the reason you mention, that within a day or a few days, everything is different again - it's been tough (I was extremely anxious last year and the beginning of this year, when it hadn't even occurred to me my hormones were declining duh!  But now I am more accepting of the flux - I don't like it particularly, but somehow it is making me feel more confident, deep deep down, I know it is.  Confidence to trust the process and to know when I need to do something and when I don't.

It really is amazing how quickly a change in mood can happen.

[dogdoc]

CKLD you would be shocked at what they will diagnose you with.  About 2 years ago when all this mess started, I was a genuine mess with anxiety and weeping out of the blue, then normal, then weeping. Really severe and very sudden. Would have 10 days of normal person, followed by 2 weeks of anxious wretched person ( sound familiar peri people?)

 Saw psychiatry who did indeed try to diagnose me with bipolar spectrum disorder and 'atypical' anxious depression. She did in fact want to put me on bipolar medication.

I have NO history of bipolar disease. It does not run in my family. I have never been manic. I have never been depressed. I have had panic disorder ( very mild and very well controlled) since puberty which has been very well controlled with an ultra low dose SSRI.
I told this psychiatrist that this was all new, that I truly felt it was hormonal, showed her a mood diary that had been kept for months, discussed the period changes, headaches, and alllll the other perimenopause typical symptoms I had, but no. For her it was bipolar...the end.   My regular doctor and I actually laughed ( despite the stupidity) about her 'diagnosis'.

For real life..it happens.
Tara

[SallyG]

Dear Gypsy Rose Lee, crazy isn't it?

[Spangles]

I'm so pleased you feel better, I hope to soon, I'm getting there slowly. They should rename the menopause the loopy years because that's how it makes me feel at times.
Hope you continue to feel well.
xXx