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[PollyH]

Hi all
Not posted for a while but totally at my wits end with the menapause. Been going throught this for 9 years and totally had enough. I seem to have come to the end of the road with hrt because I can't take progestogen. I have been taking Utrogestan and estradot for the past eight months. I am supposed to take 200mg on day 15 to 26. I can only manage to take three or four 100mg vaginally cus I feel so crap on it but still manage to have a bleed. Recently I was supposed to be going out for a get together with my family and was so sick of being ill on utrogestan I decided to take just one. I did have a bleed but only for a day and since then ii have just felt worse and worse - so depressed, sad feel useless and so bitter that this has taken over so much of my life. I have been to see a specialist recently who has given me three options - to take utrogestan every three months and have regular scans, mirena coil, or total hysterectomy. I also,have problems with thyroid and my t3 is low - so need to find out more about that. I don't know what to do cus I can't think straight at the moment and font know if I can go to work tomorrow - have been off 6 times in a year and am seeing occupational health cus I'm on stage 1. Feel so sorry for every woman going through this. tried coming off a year ago but ended up back on hrt - I'm 51 and giving up with the battle.
 
Polly H 

Pollly H

[honeybun]

Don't give up.

Why don't you try the other options before you decide on a hysterectomy as that's a big op with a long recovery time.

If it was me I would explore everything else before going for surgery.

I'm sure others will be along soon, including those who have had surgery to give you more advice.

Honeybun
X

[countrybumpkin]

Sounds like everything is overwhelming you understandably.

On the thyroid front I used to be an advisor for a thyroid charity so can answer most questions.  As you know your T3 is low you must have had it tested by your GP ??  You can take T3 tablets but they need close supervision and very regular blood testing as its easy to take too much which can cause heart problems.  An endocrinologist is the best person to see about T3 problems.

It sounds as if HRT is making you feel ill.  Do you have to take HRT for some reason or could you wean yourself off it??  I admit I have never ever taken it due to family history of breast cancer but I do use natural progesterone cream from a private consultant and this helped enormously when I was in peri meno with heavy bleeding and big ovarian cysts. I too was told at this point by gyny that I had three options to live with the flooding and have regular scans for the cysts, take hrt which I couldn't or have a hysterectomy and I  am sure I would have had one if I hadn't researched other options and found the private Dr who specialised in natural prog cream.  I am now post meno 2 yrs and  I have some hot flushes and some issues with lack of oestrogen in my nether regions   I am 53 yrs old.

I am not much use for advice on the meno side but can help on the thyroid issues.

[Cassie]

Why dont you try the 100 mg Utrogestan used vaginally for just a few days say 10 per month and have an annual scan of your womb. I found the 200mg way too much for my system, the 100mg is fine...

[GypsyRoseLee]

A hysterectomy is a very big step. Why not try a long cycle HRT so you only have to have Utrogestan once every 3 months instead, first?

Or Cassie's idea of cutting it back by a day or two? How does the Utrogestan make you feel, can you be a bit more specific?

[PollyH]

Hi everyone - thank you for the replies. Thanks honeybun - I have tried so much stuff over tha past nine years and this was my last option. I have tried coming off last year but couldn't cope.

Hi countrybumpkin -  I take hrt because I have so many bad symptoms. I wish you could solve the t3 problem. I am seeing an endocrologist who says my free t3 is low but wanted it tested at a special lab. When the results came back they said they only test total t3 which was ok so my endrologist is reassured by this but from my research the free t3 is the relevant one, not the total t3 - so now I don't know where to go. I have also read that estrogen dominance can cause low thyroid. Also I need to tell you that my tsh is always normal and my t4 is 10.2.

Hi Cassie - I can only take four utrogestan vaginally as it makes me too I'll - foggy head, tired and depressed.

Hi Gypsyroselee - Utrogestan also makes me feel,like I need to be on my own and dontvwant to be sociable and everything makes me irritable - everything feels such a struggle.

Thank you all again for your input - a hysterectomy is a drastic step to take because I can't tolerate the progestogen. I may have to come off hrt - and maybe my thyroid is to blame for my horrible symptoms - but nobody seems to have any answers!!

PollyH
Xx

[Night_Owl]

Hi PollyH

My experience has been very similar to yours - the same amount of time too that I've had vile symptoms - had a relatively early meno at 44 too - tried all sorts and been on and off HRT a few times too - but always go back on, in spite of being ill when taking progesterone.

I feel  6 to 7 / out of 10 bad on HRT - but 10/10 bad when off it!  With the occasional good day here and there.

As you are, I'm progesterone intolerant too.  Panay's clinic suggested mirena - then hyster - after much deliberation, in the end I decided I didn't want either. 

Hyster felt too much of a drastic step, the fact that it is irreversible scares me if there is no improvement - after researching I discovered that some women have felt worse emotionally, mood swings etc etc after a hyster - it can create other issues too, eg. worsening of bladder prolapse with loss of surrounding tissue, everything can collapse/lean back -  then what to do ...

I'm on ultra low dose estrogen patch and Vagifem twice weekly - the clinic allow me to use HALF Estraderm 25.  I am medication sensitive and in the past I've had endo build up quickly even on micro low dose, so I'm required to have 6 monthly scans.

When I take the vag route 100mg Utrogestan for 12 nights every 6 weeks it always makes me feel beyond hideous, I dread taking it - however I do have the 6 week 'estrogen holiday'.  I feel bad for 12/14 days on Utro - if I didn't take the estrogen (Estraderm) patch, I would feel ghastly every single day and not be able to function.

Would you think about trying the long cycle option?

You have my sympathies, I hope you can find a way forward.



Night_Owl
x

[PollyH]

Hi Nightowl

At to he moment I take 75mcg of estrogen (estradot patch) an I am supposed to take 100mg  utrogestan on day 15 to 26 of the cycle. However I am only managing to take three or four. I am having an ultrasound scan on 24th April to check my womb lining. At the moment I feel like my body is trying to have a bleed as I only took one utrogestan lady time so only bled for one day and now I am paying the consequences - terrible back pain, depression. The specialist said I should stay off progestogen for now but I feel like I need to have a bleed and I am due to take it on wednesday evening and don't know what to do cus I think I may feel better when I have a proper bleed. My specialist suggested taking progestogen four times a year but would have to have regular scans but that also feels scary. Are ther any other progestogens to try. Have u tried progestogen patches. I sympathise with u too night owl xxxx thanks for the reply.

PollyH
Xxx

[GypsyRoseLee]

It's so unfair that prog can cause these symptoms. Just throwing this out there, but if you are already on long cycle HRT and only have to endure the prog for 10 days every 3 months or so would there be any mileage in asking your GP for some diazepam just to get you through those 10 days.

Used in a controlled way and very sensibly it really can be a life saver. If you were only using it for a few days every 3 months it wouldn't become habit forming and really might make a huge difference to your low mood/irritability that prog causes?

This last year I have taken maybe 12 (?) diazepam 5mg tabs when I am at breaking point. They really are amazing. Guarantee a good night's sleep and remove any anxiety etc.

Just a thought.

[PollyH]

Hi Gypsyroselee

I may have to take it if there is nothing else and I decide against hysterectomy. I wish I could come off hrt cus I am post menapause and I just don't understand why some women can cope with the drop in hormones and some can't - ther must be another medical reason for this - maybe my low t3 is the answer.

Thanks so much xxxx
PollyH x

[countrybumpkin]

Hi Polly - just got back to site and seen your reply.

Yes free T3 is the best one to check and I can understand your frustration with your endocrinologist.  What was her answer to having your free T3 checked. 
The biggest problem is that all labs operate differently so my hospital tests both free and total T3 but sometimes they refuse to test it at all!  Then they test both with no bother.
I would press your endo to get your free T3 tested and even ask if you can have it done privately if you can afford it as they will know which labs will do it or even search yourself and find a lab.
Your free T4 if thats the one thats 10 is a little on the low side even though your tsh is normal. Can you give me your TSH reading as what Drs say is within the normal range could be right at one end or the other as I have found many times.
If you want to pm me please do.

[PollyH]

Hi Countrybumpkin

Thanks for the reply. I have had my free t3 tested and all the other ones -  here are the results.

Free T3  3.6 but has been 3.2 in previous tests.
TSH 1.2  (range 0.1 - 4)
T4 10.9 (range 8-20) I thought the range was (10 to 24)
Total T3  1.2 (range 1.1-2.

I don't know why but the referenc ranges seem to change. It's so confusing. I'm wondering if my thyroid U.S. the cause of all my problems as well as menapause and that's why it is so bad. What does 'PM' you mean I've never done it before.

Thanks again

PollyH
Xx

[countrybumpkin]

Hi Polly, PM just means send me  a private message if you don't want everyone being able to read what you put.

Your levels are all within range as you say although your free T 4 is borderline okay.  Each hospital has its own reference range which is why I always need to know the reference range.

I have underactive thryoid and have been on synthetic thyroxine for nearly 30 years.  Whilst this drug keeps us alive it is not a complete replacement and I still have many symptoms of underactive thyroid even though my tests are all in range as well. This is because the lesser known chemicals produced by the thyroid are not tested for!  They obviously concentrate on the ones that you need to stay alive.

Any time of hormonal upheaval like puberty or menopause can cause havoc with the thryoid so its best to have regualr checks on it during this time.