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[Londongirl]

Hi all again!

Well, I finally got an appointment to the meno clinic (London) and saw the doctor there.............

Have to say after about 15 minutes, I felt the urge to just get up and walk out but didn't.............

I was explaining to the doctor that I had been getting monthly bleeds with Femoston Conti and low moods but was now on Femoston Conti low dose (0.5/2.5) and whilst still low I wasn't getting bleeds now.

She said I couldn't possibly be getting the earlier bleeds on Femoston Conti (1/5) ........ I said I did, she said I must have got it wrong........... (I was tempted to shout at her, I am not STUPID, I know what I put in my mouth woman! but I didn't) so then I said to her I am now on the low dose and no bleeds at all so far..... to which she said there is no lower dose then Femoston Conti 1/5.  I said there is and I am taking it, she said there isn't, I said there is, she looked at me disbelieving so I pulled out the box in my bag and showed her and she then referred to her manual and said, oh yes, you are right, well some things we learn from patients.............. I tried not to be smug and was more then polite with her but can't say I felt confident with what she was going to do for me. 

I explained to her that my main concern about the HRT and menopause is the depression I am experiencing and the extreme mood swings plus occasional disturbed nights due to constant waking up to go to the loo.

She prescribed me Indivina 2/5 and said this should help me with the night waking and with the depression and low moods.  She said I need a higher dose HRT and hence Indivina is the one to help me. 

The thing is that as time is going on, I am feeling marginally better.  I certainly feel better on the ultra lower dose Femoston Conti and am not having a bleed now and been on it over a month although I did experience pretty bad depression a couple of weeks ago but this may have been due to other life stresses I am having. 

My question is does anyone take Indivina 2mg/5mg and have good experiences. 

Also, any thoughts on will it help me with night waking and/or depression and mood swings? 

I am holding off taking it yet as I am thinking if time goes on perhaps the ultra low dose Femoston will work for me. 

I just don't know!  Confused to be honest. 

Happy New Year to all you lovely ladies.

Anna

[Diamonds and pearls 53]

Hi  Londongirl, sorry to hear about your recent experience -and at a Meno clinic too where you are supposed to be in the hands of experts- honestly, it makes you despair!
Regarding Indivina- I have had experience of  both the low and medium dose. I started on the 1/2.5  and it worked very well for me re flushes,mood and sleeping, however after about a year a few symptoms crept back. The G.P then put me on the 2/5 but I felt that gave me a few side effects..sore breasts,lower mood etc  and then I also started to have some intermittent bleeding. Following this I came off hrt for a while but couldn't bear all the usual miserable symptoms and after 6 months went back on the Indivina 1/2.5.
I have stayed on this hrt  until earlier this year when again I had to come off due to some bleeding issues -these have now been investigated and all is fine so it was concluded that the bleeding was due to the hrt.
After some persuasion the G.P has agreed that I can resume hrt and I am now on a very low dose patch plus utrogestan-my request after seeking advice on here re the 'kindest' regime..early days  but I hope it works for me!
If  you are feeling ok on the Femostan conti and have no bleeding, I think if I were you I would stay on it for a bit longer and see how you go.. obviously everyone is different but for me,the Indivina 2.5 precipitated bleeding..and later,so did the 1/2.5- although in other respects it suited me well.
Hope this helps a bit..good luck!

Diamonds and pearls x

[Hurdity]

Hi Londongirl

I can see that the Indivina will give you a higher dose of oestrogen which should help with the low moods - and unfortunately Femoston does not come in a higher dose. However what if it is the constant progestogen that is giving you the low moods - so it's a question of finding a balance between the oestrogen lifting your mood and the progestogen depressing it?

I seem to remember you have tried cyclical HRT before? Also are you post-menopause? Personally I would see if a cyclical HRT suited you re your moods - if you felt generally better once you were on the oestrogen only part, but your mood deteriorated when you took the progestogen part and just after you stopped - then you would know it is the progestogen that is to blame.

There are other preparations and the possibility of taking separate oestrogen and progesterone enabling you to tweak the dose to suit you.

Hurdity x

[Londongirl]

Hello again ladies and thank you so much for your replies

Well as the Doctor at meno clinic prescribed me Indivina 2/5 - I thought may as well go on that and see how that goes.  I have received a copy letter she sent to my GP in which she states that because of my mood swings and poor sleep her opinion is that I need more oestrogen. 

So I thought as I am under her care now so to speak, I will go on indivina 2/5 and see how that goes.  She wants to see me in three months time and I have to return with a chart of symptons and if any bleeding etc. 

I have to say that the past two weeks I have started getting asthmatic and occasional hot moments and over Christmas I was extremely low and have had many disturbed nights so I don't know if the low dose femoston conti was causing this or just the current stress I have in life in general.

Here's hoping. 

Not to mention that am also getting a blooming face rash too.   Some days I just want to curl up and hide away but unfortunately I can't afford to do that........ sorry feeling a tad down.   

Also, one thing I have noticed is that mornings I wake up very low but it can get better as the day goes on............ I wonder therefore if perhaps I should take my HRT at night and not morning?  So confused! 

Thank you all so much for your help
Anna

[Londongirl]

Hi again

I have now been taking the indivina since Jan 10th............

Since then I have had two bleeds (fairly heavy) and some horrendous mood swings............ so bad that my lovely daughter has kindly told me that I have been worse on this HRT then I was even before taking HRT!!!! 

I seem to be permanently bloated and whilst I kind of felt ok today, I haven't taken it today as I am absolutely terrified of having a mood swing again. 

I am so fed up with all of this and a bit concerned as I have an appointment at the Meno clinic but it's not until March 27th and I suppose the doctor there would expect me to persist with Indivina (as she prescribed it) but to be honest with you, I just don't know what to do.

I have had a lot of stress the last year, notably financial issues but have come to some arrangements now with my creditors so the stress of that is over, so now I don't even know whether my depression is/was due to stress or meno! 

My GP has also referred me to counselling for the depression. 

I am inclined, I think to stop taking Indivina, I feel bloated most of the time and whilst I am sleeping well and not getting flushes, I am also getting headaches (seemingly a week or two before the bleeds so probably another bleed on the way!).

I also think should I persist and carry on taking it, but the thought of persisting and having bleeds another few months down the line and the PMT symptoms I get with those is unbearable. 

I am so confused now with it all.  I think the most suitable to me was the low dose Femoston Conti. 

I know Hurdity suggested a non synthetic HRT so I will look into that and see what that is. 

I am definitely post meno as didn't have periods for some 3 years plus and never went on cyclical HRT only the post meno ones and to date the most suitable was femoston low dose..........

Got massive headache tonight but haven't taken a pill today as I fear it will mean more headaches this week and then another bleed. 

I guess the doctor at the clinic would expect me to persist and my question would be will these symptoms subside?  I get so fed up with the side effects. 

Sorry, am confused here and some days can't think straight! 

Another thing this HRT seems to have brought back and don't know why, is my recurrent sore throat!  I seemed to have this a lot prior to HRT, constant sort of swollen glands and sore throats and that is coming back again! 

Hope you are all well ladies.
Anna

[Hurdity]

Hi Londongirl

So sorry to hear about your ongoing problems with finding the right HRT.

If you are absolutely sure you are post-menopausal (ie periods had stopped for over a year before starting HRT at all and you weren't on the pill or Mirena or anything like that) then it must be the balance of the two hormones not working for you (re the bleeding). In addition it sounds to me like continuous progestogen is definitely not suiting you.

It is all very well taking more oestrogen (which you have been prescribed) but you are still taking a continuous combined preparation, which as I said last month could well be causing your low mood and depression. No amount of extra oestrogen will prevent this negative effect (of the progestogen ) if you are sensitive to it.

My suggestion would be - to try the bio-identical HRT - ie an oestrogen patch, gel or tablet, combined with micronised progesterone (marketed as utrogestan).

You could tweak the dose and hopefully any random bleeding would stop.

If you still felt bloated and in depressive low mood for much of the time, then I would strongly suggest a cycle as I mentioned below - and which is what the leading gynaes advise for progesterone intolerant woman. Although you would have some pms for the time you were taking the progesterone, you would hopefully feel well while on the oestrogen only part. Even better would be if you were permitted a longer cycle (to minimise the time on progesterone) but this would need to be under the guidance of a gynae to ensure your lining does not thicken.

The other thing is if you have had heavy bleeds, if these were similar on the other HRT, perhpas worth mentioning to the doc anyway - to rule out fibroids or any other issues. Problem is of course once you mention this they sometimes want you to be off HRT while investigations take place (although I refused).

Also you are right - if you stop and start the tablets this can lead both to irregular bleeding, mood wings and severe pms symptoms such as headaches.

What was the problem with the Femoston?

This is a bit of a ramble but hope some of it makes sense!

Hurdity x

[Londongirl]

Thanks Hurdity!

I have just started bleeding today and that's the third bleed this month so that's it, I am not taking any more of these tablets.  I can't carry on like this and am having bloating, mood swings on top of the bleeds. 

I tried to ring the Meno clinic as I have an appointment 27 March but can't get through and despite leaving a voicemail no one has rung me as I tried to bring the appointment forward but doubt that will be possible.

The doctor at the Meno clinic seemed so confident that Indivina would solve my low mood (so much for her knowledge hey!) and I just feel now that I am going to take a break and see how I get on. 

I have to say that I found that the ultra low dose Femoston Conti wasn't too bad for me.  I wasn't getting any bleeds and although I had some depression, I wonder if this was just down to stress/money worries which are being alleviated now.

Thank you so much for your advice and yes I am definitely post meno as had no periods for 3 years plus! 

Got a horrendous headache today, bloating and bleeding!  No fun! 

Anna

[Londongirl]

Hey Ladies
Just to update you all and this is almost laughable (if I wasn't crying yesterday that is)................

So, just to save you all reading the thread, doctor at meno clinic prescribed me Indivina in Jan...............

Took it over two months, second month virtually had a bleed every week!  Also made me more depressed then ever, mood swings etc...............

On Feb 27th I said to hell with HRT and stopped taking it............... after a week, felt ok, mood improved, slept well and NO flushes!  Time went on and things stayed well................how happy I was! 

On March 27th (last Thursday) had follow up with doc at meno clinic.  Told her had come off HRT and I felt so so good!  And I did!  I had had no sweats, no night bothers, all was good...................  So she discharged me...............

Sun just gone....... the flushes slowly creeping back and would you believe it!  Last two nights, barely any sleep, night sweats, daytime flushes, mood sinking............... 

Isn't it sod's law that a whole month went past and I felt great and the minute I tell the doc I felt great, it all comes back with a vengeance...............

Funnily enough I still had my ultra low dose Femoston Conti tablets so this morning in despair I have taken one and still carry on, as I did find they were the most tolerable for me...............

The reason I was prescribed Indivina is because the doc at meno clinic said I needed higher dose and she assured me my mood would improve............... (the reverse happened!)................

So I am going to stick with low dose Femoston Conti for a while and if my depression comes back then I will go back and refer to Hurdity's great advice here and suggest gel (which my own GP said was only used in France..................... ............)


Have to add that I was surprised the symptoms didn't come back after a week off HRT but took a whole month............... (HRT confuses me  )

Just wonder how quickly these Femoston will kick in as lost sleep at night is not something I could take anymore  )

Hope you are all coping well Ladies and thanks again for the constant support and advice.

Londongirl
x

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