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[Bette]

Errr ... I was just trying to be amusing!
Well, if it's any consolation, I laughed out loud when I read your post earlier! 
Bette x

[bombus]

Hi Ladies,

Sorry I've not been around for some time-not been at all well. Anyway, last time I took Utrogeston I ended up with the most hideous migraine and was in bed for 3 days. It was so bad that I've decided to stop everything-oestrogel,testosterone and the dreaded P-I just want to see how I get on without it. I can't cope with the throught of having a sick blistering migraine every month.

I think that if I want to take oestrogen I'm going to have to have a hysterectomy, but I think as night-owl said-it seems a bit drastic.

B

[Hurdity]

Hi Bombus

Good to hear from you but not good to hear that you are still having problems with the prog even on low dose Utrogestan - it seems for those who are extremely intolerant to added progesterone not even natural prog will work at the doses that are prescribed generally.    I presume you have been given the lowest dose that is deemed safe enough to prevent thickening?

Of course in our natural menstrual cycle it would start off low and following ovulation would start to rise, up to a peak amount and then decline, all in the space of two weeks. I am sure this natural rise and fall is easier to cope with than getting a high dose all at once even for those who suffer with pms - but of course I presume very difficult to prescribe, and then could still give rise to migraines.

It really is rotten isn't it? We know we definitely benefit from the oestrogen for our long term health, and progesterone also has a metabolic role, but there are some for whom this is ruined by the dreadful side effects from the prog which far outweigh the benefits.

Good luck with trying to come off it - not sure what your oestrogel dose was but I'm sure you know if you come off suddenly you can get rebound side effects - and worsening of symptoms, at least initially. But there are others on here also trying to come off - I'm sure you will have seen the threads.

I do sympathise with you Bombus and sending you a 

Hurdity x 

[Night_Owl]

Hi Bombus

Sorry to read about your 3 day migraine, it really is hideous (I had the same a few weeks ago and get them often).

I've also got to do something as I can't carry on like this every month - and I really have had enough of debilitating prog side effects that are 'unlive-able'.  Have started by cutting down Oestrogel to one pump and going to get further advice from the meno clinic and take it from there.  Last year when I went Cold Turkey I had a rapid tidal wave return of all symptoms within 10 days, caved in and went back on.

Have sent you a PM.

Hope you feel better soon.

Night_Owl
x

[Night_Owl]

PS - Bombus, these are the threads I was referring to in PM:

Have you come off HRT and managed to stay off?

http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,14175.0.html

Anyone heard of Menostar?

http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,14117.0.html



As mentioned, I'm going to ask re: Menostar at next meno clinic treatment review.

[Rivadan]

I think you have to think through carefully what taking oestrogen means to you, whether you are inclined to be a long-term user, and then bear in mind that you might have another 30 years to live. That may make hysterectomy a more attractive proposition.

The problem I find is that when I'm in the midst of a negative prog reaction phase I just want to throw the towel in. Its not until things settle down again that I'm able to think things through clearly.

[bombus]

Hi Hurdity ,

Thanks for the Hug . I only took 100mg of Utro for two nights V route. Those two little capsules were enough to put me in bed for three days with an incapitating migraine. I'm wonderng if the sudden shock of it entering my system is the cause of the migraines-and that possibly a low constant dose e.g. every other night or three nights  might just be tolerable rather than putting my body through the shock of it's appearance each month. I'm thinking this because the migraine doesn't last for the whole 7 days that I'm on the Utro.

Hi Night-Owl ,

Thanks for the links and pm--I've replied. You really have been through the mill with it all Night-Owl-I do empathise with you. Do you think you'd ever consider a hysterectomy?

Hi Susan ,

It's great that you've found something that works-----long may it last!

I haven't completely ruled out a hysterectomy. It's the recovery time and enforced rest that concerns me. Also I worry about lack of support from my GP. She's not a big fan of HRT --The last time I saw her she told me I should really be thinking about coming off HRT and be completely off it by the age of 55! So I'm not sure a hysterectomy will go down well with her.

Oh well, let's see what happens over the next few months. It's 9 days since I last applied the oestrogel and no hot flushes yet. I'm expecting them anytime soon!

Thanks for all your comments ladies.

Bx

[Rivadan]

When we started talking about Utrogestan some months back there seemed to be a general feeling that this was a "kinder" prog.

I have to say I haven't found it so. To me even the lower dose, taken on alternate days, seems to pack too great a punch, and gives me very uncomfortable "period pains".

My conclusion is that while Utrogestan's definitely worth a try it shouldn't be thought of as in some way superior (even if it does seem to be a favourite of private clinics).

[Hurdity]

Hi Rivadan

Really sorry to hear that utrogestan is not working for you. 

Have you found another one that works better or are you still looking? Do hope you manage to find something that makes you feel OK but it may be that you like Bombus and Night_Owl are extremely intolerant to any sort of added prog taken/applied.

As far as what is superior is concerned - it depends on what you mean by superior! If you mean that it causes the least bad side effects - that's a matter of opinion and how differently we all experience it. Personally it is far superior to anything else I've tried - even the other natural prog - Cyclogest - and I'm sure that has something to do with the dosage prescribed. I think for most women who have prog problems the worst are the migraines, and for others it's the anxiety, fog head, depression, irritability, decline of libido that seems to come with some of the synthetic progestins like norethisterone or Mirena. Others are happy on lots of them!

My view is that if you can tolerate it - apart from the expected tiredness and other usual prog effects, then it is superior to all other synthetic progestins - because it is bio-identical and therefore more natural, and the body will benefit from any other metabolic effects of progesterone besides protection of the uterus.

From what I've read (and sorry haven't got a link to hand) synthetic progestins do not have the same beneficial effects other than this (protection of the womb), and therefore since we have evolved to use it in a cyclical way I am prepared to put up with it ( but I am lucky in that Utro has only minor side effects). I would not want to take any prog on a conti basis though because of the sedative effects - but as always it is a balance between the benefits of oestrogen, whether you want a bleed and the side effects of the prog.

I know also that remaining cyclical for a long time is not without its risks - I think the latest research re breast cancer shows that oestrogen and prog is more risky than oestro alone or no HRT? (Really must get some links sorted out!).

Hi again Bombus - as I said before it could well be the sudden increase is not tolerated well as I said earlier - this is not how it works in the natural cycle. One day there, next day at v high concentrations. It;s a pity there aren't eg 3 different strengths eg start at 50 mg for a few days, then 100 then finally 200 mg for a couple of days and then decrease in the same way. Of course that might prolong the withdrawal effects of pmt.....

There is always the option of going on a longer cycle - like I am doing - every two months which means that any side effects only occur 6 x per year and the same for the bleed. Again probably not without some risks. Not sure how long I will want to put up with a bleed - since I am now 58 but I never really stopped for any length of time - probably about a year was the longest.

Why aren't the researchers looking into all this? After all most of us will spend nearly 30-50% of our lives post meno so we deserve better than this!

Hurdity x

[Night_Owl]

My conclusion is that while Utrogestan's definitely worth a try it shouldn't be thought of as in some way superior

I agree Rivadan, Utro is so often mentioned as almost the answer for prog intolerance.  For some, there's no escaping the hormone fluctuation and resulting migraine that ANY prog creates when introduced into the body. 

Cyclogest is also another 'natural' that creates the same migraine effect.

Bombus, the Utro 100 vag alternate nights supposedly avoids the fluctuations - for me personally it didn't work as I felt vile and exhausted ALL of the time.  However, that's just me - I can get migraines even on the estrogen only section.

It always comes back to trial and error, and factoring in that what may work for a while may not continue to work in the longer term.

http://www.menopausehysterectomy.com/hrt-progesterone-progestinspart3.htm

However, in some women it is virtually impossible to include a progestogen in their HRT regimen due to the severity of the negative effects.

After many prog trials, I know that I definitely fall into this category.  Of the women who take HRT, 20% will be prog intol and within that category half will be HIGHLY prog intol.

Gynae has said that as migraine has returned (from teens) since meno hit, having a hyster and taking estro only would NOT necessarily eliminate migraines, won't know until it's all done.

Know this is not encouraging - but I'm just telling it how it is, the reality.  I has taken me a long time to get to this realisation.  Anybody reading this thinking of trying Utro, please don't be put off - as we're all so very different.


Night_Owl
x

[Night_Owl]

It;s a pity there aren't eg 3 different strengths eg start at 50 mg for a few days, then 100 then finally 200 mg for a couple of days and then decrease in the same way. Of course that might prolong the withdrawal effects of pmt.....



Hurdity, that's a very good suggestion - more gradual, wonder why that is totally overlooked in all progs - as you say, one day no prog, next day, lots - then the reverse happens.

There needs to be more research into this but guess with cutbacks .... like that's ever gonna happen ....


Night_Owl
x

[Rivadan]

I have to admit I don't care tuppence if what I take is natural, synthetic, taken orally, vaginally or via any other orifice as long as it gives me less grief.

My own 'natural' progesterone caused me absolute hell whereas norethisterone, apart from the effect on my hair, was fab. Maybe Utro's a bit too close to nature for me.

I still have the prog used in the Femoston products left to try. So there's still hope!

[Hurdity]

Hi Rivadan
I have to admit I don't care tuppence if what I take is natural, synthetic, taken orally, vaginally or via any other orifice as long as it gives me less grief.
 
This conjures up hilarious images.....
Hurdity x 

[Taz2]

How have you got to take it I think jaycee means LD? What dose how often and is it vaginally or orally?

Taz x

[oldsheep]

have to say this cycle, I felt better on the Utrog 100mg than I do off it. Now it's stopped (I take 14/ a month)
I can't sleep properly and my M.E is worse.
Does the oestrogen go 'low' while you are on it? I find it hard on so little sleep.
Mind you, so far on HRT, IF I get a bleed, it's during the Utro cycle, not afterwards, so who knows what's going on.