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[aj1971]

This is a comforting and disturbing thread. Comforting because it assures me I am not going mad re. my oestrogel bottles; disturbing because it doesn't seem to be close to being resolved!   

Like many, I was happy on the old bottles. My brain tells me that it is the same formula and should make no difference. But I have seen a real lack of consistency in oestrogel since I had the new bottles - since around October 2023. For me, there is a difference in the viscosity of the gel - the stronger gel is less watery and has a sheen to it (like the old bottle gel), but the weaker gel just seems to spurt out rather than flow smoothly, and is more watery. And then there is the pump issue - new bottles are not uniform in delivering 1.25g, so I use a jewellery scale to make sure it is accurate every time.

I recently had bottles that had a matt, rather than gloss, label on them (all cylindrical) and they were more like the older oestrogel (stronger). It is just such a faff having to adapt to each new formula, and there is definitely some jiggery-pokery going on somewhere. I know that some will say it can't be, but 7 months of experience with the stuff says otherwise! 

Tried Sandrena, but it wipes me out - totally exhausted and no idea why. Felt more normal again 3 days after coming off it. I don't do well with patches (make me very jittery and it doesn't settle), so will persevere with oestrogel since it is the best of a bad bunch for me. Hopefully they will eventually find a formula that remains consistent. Very envious of people who use HRT and immediately 'get their life back'.

So, thank you for all your comments and research on here. It helps! x

[joziel]

That is interesting, I've been going through a rough patch again recently and I'm on a shiny bottle of slightly more watery gel. Previously was on the matt less-watery gel.

There are often gel-farts where you only get a little bit of gel. Sometimes I leave it there as extra, sometimes I scrape it off and do another pump...

It's all a bit hard to fathom.

[Moog77]

As someone who did v well on the old bottle and has had to switch to patches and more recently on to Sandrena this thread is wonderful.

Just a note here that Sandrena comes in 1mcg sachets AND 0.5mcg so the fiddling around trying to half a 1mcg sachet doesnt need to happen 

I suspect though I need a little bump on Sandrena - I was on 3/4 pumps of old bottle. My oestrogen on a 100 Estradot patch was 234 so wasnt absorbing there. However I am going to spread it over a smaller area as I tend to sweep it right across all of the inside of my thighs -  from knee to pelvis.

What a lovely informative thread.

[joziel]

In the interests of updating this thread for future use... 

I had bloods done on 12 (yes TWELVE) pumps of Oestrogel. They were 328pmol   

The last bloods I had done were on 6 pumps of Oestrogel. They were 334pmol 

So I'm not getting any more estrogen despite doubling my dose of gel 

(We are trying to get me comfortably into the 450-650pmol range to see if that helps insomnia and night time neuro symptoms.)

So I'm now switching to Sandrena. With the dosage, my Newson doctor is starting me on 4x 1mg sachets (which is the equivalent of 8 pumps of gel). I'm not sure if I should reduce that and start at 3x 1mg sachets/6 pumps. She says most people just apply Sandrena in the AM but I can split the dose AM and PM if I like... 

[chopsuey]

Hi joziel

If I rememeber correctly, I don't think you ever had the 'old Oestrogel' for comparison. But given that your blood levels were no better between 6 and 12 pumps, I would suggest you start on the equivalent of 6 (3 x 1mg) and work up from there if you need to. It's still a fairly high dose and Sandrena is more concentrated and hasn't been messed about with...yet...

My new specialist has encouraged me to switch, as she feels it is absorbed better in her experience, which I probably will do after I've sorted a few other issues out. My blood levels were 375 when I was last tested, avoiding possible contamination of the blood draw arm this time and avoiding application before the test. I feel OK but not as good as when on the old Oestrogel and my skin is definitely drier.

[joziel]

Interesting, my skin is also dry on 328pmol. 

I have not quite figured out whether to do Sandrena twice a day and which body parts to apply it to(!). I think it's supposed to be one sachet per body part/limb but then it says something about using the other side of the body the next day and alternating body sides and I don't think I'm going to be able to do that on this dosage    I also don't really want to put it on my arms as I already have to walk around semi-naked whilst it dries on my lower body (and I think Sandrena takes longer to dry), plus I don't want to contaminate my blood draw area or get it near my boobs  So I'm planning on putting it on my thighs and butt cheeks like Oestrogel...

[chopsuey]

I just kept one arm gel free and made sure that was the one the blood was drawn from, mainly because I wanted to apply the gel to the recommended sites. Sandrena is a lot less gel than Oestrogel, so I would have thought you'd be able to keep it well away from your boobs if you apply it to the outer upper arm. I wear a vest while it dries!

 I don't know what the basis is for the recommendations for site application between different hormone products -  it does seem to vary between products. Is it due to skin thickness, fat or muscle composition? 

As for once or twice a day, people on this forum seem to have very different experiences with Sandrena. My previous consultant was adamant that Oestrogel should only be applied once a day and she was involved in the original trials. I would suggest if you absorb poorly, I would go for once a day with the larger amount in the hope that some of it will be absorbed!

[joziel]

Hmmm... if I do end up on the 4x 1mg sachets I might need an extra arm, or to apply 2 sachets to one limb. I guess I could do my butt cheek and thigh.....

My Newson doctor said it should last 24hrs and I should be ok doing it once a day, but some people prefer twice. And to see how I feel... 

I do envy women who get on HRT, it fixes their symptoms and they feel great and that's that. Then there are others of us who are doing all this faff.... 

[Abc123]

Just to say I saw ANP with meno training yesterday and we increased my Sandrena to 2 sachets. I was already splitting doses but she was adamant I did.

I find I get a hit then feel low when I tried once a day for one day. So I'd probably go with how you feel if it's mroe convenient for you to do once a day.

I hope the Sandrena helps you Joziel. I'm with you re those who find one that fixes everything first go! I wish I could take a tablet and be done with it!! But I'm also grateful there's something for us to try!!

[joziel]

Abc how are you doing with the Sandrena then?

I have about 3 weeks worth of it coming my way and have to get onto my NHS GP to change my prescription before then, once I get my Newson letter through.

This is all such a palaver it's why I haven't changed before: Have expensive Newson appointment, wait for Newson GP to write letter, then take said letter in person to the surgery for reception to upload it to my file (last time Newson claimed they sent it and NHS GP claimed they never received it), wait 3 days for that to happen, book phone appointment with NHS GP, order HRT and collect it... 

I bought a few weeks worth to start Sandrena in the meantime, and paid the Newson prescription fee.

Last time instead of the 10 bottles of Oestrogel I thought I was going there to collect, I turned up and there was 1 bottle. So then I had to come home and go back again in another 4 days.....

Is this really the best way for women to get their hormones in 2024? You have to be extremely resourceful and still able to fight the freaking system. Really we need a specialist menopause NHS doctor service, it's too in-depth and affects too much of the population to have regular GPs dealing with it. They should train up more menopause specialist GPs and have centres just for HRT and menopause stuff.... a bit like the private menopause clinics but on the NHS and not in hospitals or tertiary care (not needing referral).

[Abc123]

I have similar issues re letter timing then getting it sorted with cardiology. I now always pay for a month's worth of changed meds privately to allow the process to happen or else I'm in pain waiting for the meds increase. Just have to hope healthcare improves on all fronts in the not too distant future (a pipedream probably  ).

I'm doing OK on the Sandrena thanks. I found 1.5 sachets not enough (from 3 oestrogel/oeatrodose which had me with oestradial in the 140s). I had a month of combined increased angina and migraine (4 episodes where I nearly went to a&e but felt too ill to move so didn't) which were linked. My GP was away so I increased oestrogen of my own accord as they happened during low oestrogen. stages of my cycle. I haven't had a migraine since. I did also increase one of my cardiac meds after the 4 episodes.

My fatigue is still awful as is mood, have gone to 2g and having levels measured in a month. But the fatigue and mood could be other conditions, everything is so intertwined, it's hard to then get necessary help on any front it feels. I'll be pleased when my GP is back!!

I prefer the less coverage of the Sandrena even though it is sticky. If able I go outside to let it finish drying and it's no longer sticky then.

I hope your letter palava proves less drama this time. The way we're meant to find the energy to fight for ourselves when we feel so awful is such a cruel irony.