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Author Topic: Cyclical utrogesten to daily…. 😫😱 HELP, 66 and very worried.  (Read 413 times)

jacig1957

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Hi ladies

I’m looking for advice on changing from cyclical to daily utrogesten.
I’ve been on a cyclical regime for years, 100mg for 12 days every 3 months and 1 pump eustradol daily.
I’m 66 and post menopausal.
Scan yesterday showed thickening 10mm.
GP has suggested I take 200 mg utrogesten daily !!!!!
I feel awful on my utrogesten days, terrible side effects and won’t cope with such a large dose every day.
I’m just not sure what to do, GP just looked up a book for dosage and suggested I try it😫
if any of you post menopausal ladies changed from cyclical to daily.

What dose do you take?
How quickly did you get used to it?
Did it cause you problems?
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Mary G

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Re: Cyclical utrogesten to daily…. 😫😱 HELP, 66 and very worried.
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2024, 12:08:39 PM »

If you don't tolerate 100mg Utrogestan well then you have no chance with 200mg every day.

Do you use Utrogestan vaginally?  It works better vaginally and has fewer side effects so it might be worth a try but you need it invoke a bleed first to shed the lining and get it down to something like 3-4mm so it might be a heavy bleed.  When did you last bleed?  If your bleed was imminent it would easily explain the 10mm reading.

Ultimately, it might be better to try a different form of progesterone and I would recommend you try vaginal Cyclogest which is also body identical but it has far fewer side effects.  It comes as a wax pessary that you can cut into tolerable doses.

There are other types of progesterone but they are mostly oral and synthetic.  There is also the Mirena coil but I'm not sure you would want to take that route.

I'm on one pump of Oestrogel and use 50mg progesterone every day and it works well.

I hope that helps.

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jacig1957

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Re: Cyclical utrogesten to daily…. 😫😱 HELP, 66 and very worried.
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2024, 04:06:26 PM »

Hi Mary
Thank you for your reply, I’m worried sick and can’t stop thinking about it all. My heads going round in circles and I’ve been on this iPad all weekend looking up the (non existent ) alternatives.

I was on eustrogen gel and provera for years cyclically which worked really well for me ( apart from slight night sweats when taking provera) until I Had a blood clot in my leg, 2 years ago and was immediately changed to utrogesten.

That’s when my troubles started…. I was taking it vaginally 100 mg for 12 days every 3 months along with 1 pump estrogel  exactly as I had my provera regime.
I couldn’t cope with the side effects taking it any more than that, the bloody stuff is poison.

After about 4/5 days of starting utrogesten I get horrendous night sweats, to the point where I am literally soaking, as is the bed. This lasts every night until around 2 weeks after coming off it.
I haven’t had a bleed for a 2 regimes, but have a dirty discharge, hence my visit to the GP for referral for scan.

I also have such an irritated bladder whilst on it too, and feel a burning sensation, frequent need to wee and cystitis type symptoms, along with migraines and a general groggy feeling every morning, probably due to lack of sleep.

When I went to GP she said I needed to change to continuous utrogesten, looked up a book and told me to insert 200mg vaginally every night. I told her I couldn’t do that as I can barely manage 100mg over 12 nights.
It honestly makes me feel so bad.

I had my scan yesterday and it was 10mm, obviously too thick.
I’m waiting on hospital sending results to GP and then a referral to gynaecology. Ive an app in 2 weeks with GP to discuss findings. I honestly don’t know what to suggest or ask to try now?

I just don’t know what I’m going to take in its place as I can’t have normal progesterone due to my clots and cannot face the menopausal symptoms again without my eustrogen…I feel amazing when just using the eustrogel, albeit only 1 pump.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2024, 04:10:48 PM by jacig1957 »
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Mary G

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Re: Cyclical utrogesten to daily…. 😫😱 HELP, 66 and very worried.
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2024, 04:25:33 PM »

So basically synthetic progesterone is not an option?

In that case, it might be worth trying the compounded progesterone route which I found worked very well and was very easy to tolerate.  Have a look at my composed hormones thread on here in the Alternative Therapies section, I will bump it up for you.

Once you have tried all the branded forms of progesterone, compounded progesterone is the last chance saloon before considering a hysterectomy.  It's far from ideal because it involves consultations and spending money but if it works it will be worth it.
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sheila99

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Re: Cyclical utrogesten to daily…. 😫😱 HELP, 66 and very worried.
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2024, 06:52:50 PM »

Apart from utro and provera what else have you tried?
Compounded works for some people but usually because they're a lower dose. You're already on the danger category with a thickened lining so atm you need more than the standard dose to thin it down not less.
 Utro is poison for me too but if we want oestrogen we have to put up with some form of progesterone. Or you could have a hysterectomy but I suspect you'd have to pay for that yourself. How much oestrogen are you on?
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jacig1957

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Re: Cyclical utrogesten to daily…. 😫😱 HELP, 66 and very worried.
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2024, 09:11:40 AM »

Thanks again for you replies ladies

Mary…what is compounded ? I’m a pensioner and only have that as my income, so I cannot afford anything that involves paying  for privately.

Sheila…I’m only on 1 pump of eustrogel. My womb is at 10mm.  I can’t have any synthetic progesterones due to having had blood clots 2 years ago 😞 I’m not sure what gynae will suggest to thin it down. God knows when I’ll get an appointment. I don’t even see my GP for another 10days, then I’m assuming she’ll refer me.
I’m worried as to what I should be doing in the meantime ?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2024, 09:19:05 AM by jacig1957 »
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sheila99

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Re: Cyclical utrogesten to daily…. 😫😱 HELP, 66 and very worried.
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2024, 10:20:40 AM »

The blood clot risk is for oral not transdermal so you can't use provera but you could use a mirena or a patch. If you used a mirena now it will thin your lining and avoid the need for utro so perhaps this might be thd best option? Combined patches only come in a 50mcg dose but half a patch would be the same as your current dose. Combined patches contain progesterone as well as oestrogen so avoid the need for utrogestan and would be suitable once the lining is thin but they won't have enough progesterone to thin it down. Although utrogestan is body identical so supposed to be best I turn into a zombie on it but I have no side effects from evorel patches (had to change because I developed an allergic reaction to the glue). It's about finding something your body can tolerate. Until your appointment you need to take as much utrogestan as you can to get the lining thinner. I'd suggest doing some of your own research so you know the ones that don't carry a risk of clots and can discuss it with your gp. You can find what's available from the menu then Treatments. Some people get on well with cyclogest but it's off licence for hrt so you gp may not prescribe it.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2024, 10:23:42 AM by sheila99 »
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jacig1957

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Re: Cyclical utrogesten to daily…. 😫😱 HELP, 66 and very worried.
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2024, 12:30:46 PM »

Thanks Sheila. I’ll try to keep going with utrogesten for another 10 days 😫😫 until I see GP
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pepperminty

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Re: Cyclical utrogesten to daily…. 😫😱 HELP, 66 and very worried.
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2024, 05:04:23 PM »

You may be able to have a short course of strong synthetic progesterone to clear things out. If I  remember correctly Hurdity ( one of the ladies on here) had a thickened lining and the doctor gave her a short course of strong progesterone . You just may need to shorten the length of time you take estrogen only- every 2 months and see how you go. 

PMxx

 
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Hurdity

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Re: Cyclical utrogesten to daily…. 😫😱 HELP, 66 and very worried.
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2024, 08:26:21 PM »

Hi jacig1957

I've just skimmed through the replies and if I've not missed anything, you haven't said where in your cycle you were when the scan was done?  As you are taking it cyclically and on a very long cycle, you would expect the lining to thicken, perhaps considerably, until immediately after your bleed. If you aren't bleeding and have a thickened lining then this does indicate the utrogestan is not working.

Incidentally,  100 mg utrogestan is the licensed amount for DAILY use in continous combined HRT. It is even less than the licensed dose for cyclical HRT on a 28 day cycle (though on low doses of oestrogen half the amount may work - on a monthly cycle).

I understand your dilemma if you feel so bad on Utrogestan - many of us do - though I can tolerate it just about, - and I am now on around 5 -6 week cycle because my lining was thickening too.

Incidentally, just because your lining is thickening, doesn;t mean to say there is anything sinister, though a thickened lining is the first stage toward endometrial hyperplasia which can lead to cancer, hence it neeeds invesitgating and your lining kept within reasonable limits and not getting thicker and thicker over time.

Also - although 1 pump is supposedly a low dose, absorption varies hugely between women and with different oestrogen delivery methods so you may actually be getting a higher dose than other women - or it might just be that the progesterone dose really is too low as it is far lower than recommended.

As pepperminty said I have previously been given norethisterone tablets - to clear the lining so this is an option - not to be taken for ever, but as a medication, It is a powerful progestogen and can thin down the lining. You may bleed as it thins though I gather not necessarily. Once it has thinned down - and your specialist should be able to recall you for a scan, say after a month, then you could continue but yes you will need to find another progestogen.

Compounded progesterone is not recommended by the British Menopause Society for endometrial protection. Besides being fiendishly expensive and therefore available only to the relatively well off, products are not standardised and therefore have not been tested in proper trials re dosage for that product. Fine for those with progesterone intolerance issues who can afford it but very much off-licence. it is doubtful anyway as sheila says, that this would work for you as your current very low dose is not working.

The key thing is finding somethng you can tolerate that is effective, so you can take it more frequently. Cyclogest doesn't come in pessaries smaller than 200 mg but you could ask your specialist to try that cyclically say for 12 days every two months, after say, a course of norethisterone, if they are open to that? I used ti for several years but was off-licence before utrogestan was licensed for HRT

Some women find that increasing the dose of oestrogen on the days they take utrogestan, prevents some of the sdie effects ike sweating. Sounds counterintuitive, but you would want your lining to be thin first and to be taking a licesned dose or near enough.

I agree with sheila that Mirena coil might be your best option, but then you might want to increase your oestrogen eventually too - and then you will hopefully feel great!

Hope this helps!

Hurdity x
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