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[Peanut31]

Hello

I’m after some advice, I’ve been on HRT for nearly two years now, I’m with a private clinic, but also have the support of my GP.

The reason for going to a private menopause clinic was a back up plan incase my GP would not agree to HRT.

I am peri menopausal, still having periods.

 I  cannot tolerate the patches, but seem ok on the Oestrogel gel, I’ve tried 2 pumps, 1&1/2 pumps with negative effects, so stuck to one pump. Everything was going great.

The issue I’m having is with the Progesterone,  I go down hill when taking it, and as each month goes by, my bad days are more than good ones.

I was originally taking progesterone orally 200mg, but, advised to take it vaginally 100mg by the private clinic.

 I was informed as I am using a small amount of gel, this would be safe.

I take it two weeks on two weeks off.

 for the last 3 months I have become angry and anxious and although I love cleaning (always have) this is getting out of hand. I’m obsessed with getting rid of clutter and I can’t seem to finish one job I’m jumping to one job to another.  My to do list is getting longer and I feel like a hamster in a wheel.


I’ve gone back to the gym, hoping more exercise would help. That was an ordeal in itself, as I got myself so worked up walking in the class, I felt physically sick, but I am ok now.

I’m having negative thoughts and feel so flat. Put it this way, if I had won the lottery or a dream holiday, it would not excite me at this moment in time.

Rather than contact the private clinic (I can’t keep spending that kind of money), I went to speak to a nurse to see if she had any ideas.

I told her all my symptoms and she had given me a trial period of anti depressants sertraline.  Everything I listed was anxiety related.

To be honest I’m frightened to take them, she’s given me 50mg, but I thought about taking 12.5mg, to start.

When ever I increased my estradiol my boobs get huge and painful and I was so tearful.

I think the culprit in all this is the progesterone.

I do have some Cyclogest that the clinic gave me to try, this was when I was taking progesterone orally, but, when I started vaginally I was ok, so never used it.

I know lots of ladies are fobbed off with anti depressant rather than HRT, but any of your own experiences would be great.

My poor husband whom is a loving kind man is being shouted at all the time and I hate it. My sex drive is zero.

I’ve given up drinking coffee, thinking this was having a negative effect and fizzy drinks. I don’t smoke or drink alcohol either.

Any suggestions would be greatly received as I just don’t know what to do.

Best wishes & take care

[Arya Underfoot]

Hi Peanut
Sorry to hear what you are going through. I'm struggling with anxiety too, the HRT isn't helping. I know a lot of people on here have problems with progesterone, I'm the opposite, I love it, I take 100mg 25 days per month. I find that if I increase the Estrogel I get more anxious and more panic attacks.  I've just switched to Estrodot to see if it has less side effects. Long time ago I tried sertraline, had a horrible experience, massively increased my anxiety and made me suicidal, I stopped after 2 days. I've since read on here that those symptoms can go away after 2 weeks and then you're all good. It all depends if you can handle it, I'm too fragile. I now take CBD oil for pain and anxiety and have diazepam for panic attacks.
Like you, I tried exercise to help, started yoga classes and frequently break down and cry, I find it humiliating but I think more people need to see how bad menopause makes us, we need to stop feeling so ashamed.
Hope you feel better soon. 

[Bandango42]

Hi peanut

I'm sorry, I can't help with your progesterone query as I get on with it fine. However, anxiety was the one symptom that remained for me after a year and a half of HRT and was getting worse, not better. I was prescribed sertraline 50mg 2 months ago and it has pretty much eradicated my anxiety. I had a few mild side effects the first 2 weeks such as nausea and reduced appetite but nothing since and it's been the missing link for me.

I hope you feel better soon xx

[Goldie70]

I can sympathise with how you are feeling.  Trying to get the right balance of the hormones we do or do not need is so difficult and no one seems to be able to tell us what is right for us so we have to find out through trial and error.

My anxiety was so bad with Oestrogel (hadn’t been previously when the pump I received was by another manufacturer which seemed to decant a much smaller dose).  I decided to come off it and see where my anxiety was …. it seems to have improved but I still don’t feel myself.  Seem to zone out when people are talking to me and then want to run away! Social situations, even exercise classes and meeting with friends are filling me with fear as don’t know how I will be. 

Last night I reverted to the gel again and decanted two half pumps which seems like the same amount used before with the other bottle when it seemed to work for me so will see how that goes.  I’ve no experience of progesterone other than the Mirena coil which I have.

I’ve been on sertraline for years and 6 months ago reduced to 50mg from 100mg … as I felt I was becoming a bit numb.  Returned to GP a few weeks ago about my terrible anxiety symptoms which I related to the new HRT and she increased my sertraline back to 100mg but I’ve not started taking that dose yet.

It’s such a minefield … I hope you find what’s right for you but my suggestion would be maybe try the sertraline and see how it goes.

[Peanut31]

Good morning

Thank you for all your replies.

It is so difficult to know what to do in this situation.

Last night I decided rather than take 50mg, I cut the tablet down to 12.5mg as it’s my first time taking antidepressants. I will stick with that dosage for a week then increase to 25mg.

I feel to take 50mg straight away will be too much for me, I’ve noticed sometimes less is more.

I’ll keep a diary too.

I’ve read and the nurse said it will get a whole lot worse when taking them, before feeling better, so some how I need to ride it out.

Easier said than done.

Once again thank you for your support.

[Banjo1973]

Hi Peanut,

I'm so sorry you're feeling so bad on the progesterone part of HRT.

Like you I really struggle with Utrogestan, it makes me wired, jittery, anxious, massively constipated (to the point I have to go to the doctor due to impactation) also makes me crazy hungry.

Unfortunately I have no solutions for you, however, I was always told by docs you can take utro for 12 - 14 days, so I always went for the minimum.

I have taken it vaginally, yes less symptoms, but still after day 4/5 I feel really unpleasant.

I've got some cyclogest to try next cycle, some women report less side effects with this. I am also planning to use it rectally (I did some experimentation and this might work better for me)

Docs keep trying to push the Mirena coil in me, but I'm too scared to have progesterone constantly released.

Just over 2 years of HRT and I'm hoping Cyclogest will be my solution.

Also, some experts say 100mg vaginally is equivalent to 200mg orally. Given you take such a low dose of oestrogen, I'm wondering whether your progesterone is more than your body likes?
Good luck xxx

[CLKD]

When I first began anti-depressants in the 1980s most made me feel so ill that I had to stop after 3 days.  There was no question that I would be able to ride out those symptoms 

Let us know how you get on.  There are of course dedicated anti-anxiety medications for short term use, i.e. 'valium' which I used successfully in the 1990s.  My GP also gave me Propranolol to take every night to ease anxiety surges throughout the early 2000s. 

Deep breathing.  Yoga.  Making sure that the body is properly fuelled as low energy may cause anxiety. 

Apart from VA treatment, I don't use HRT.

Goldie70 - why not increase?

[pepperminty]

Anti D's  numb you, but do not deal with the cause unfortunately.

If you do not like tablets/ meds etc  , try some relaxation, CBT etc. Box breathing is great for anxiety.  I would also consider changing the type of progesterone .  Or change the type of estrogen. Keep a diary and see if there is a pattern.  Try taking magnesium as this can relax you.  Many of my friends who have taken anti D's cannot come off them after years due to side effects, so it may be worth looking at alternatives first.

PMX

[CLKD]

ADs have never numbed me.  I did have problems finding 1 that didn't make me feel ill, after 6 the GP found something .  PHEW!  Some find that ADs don't help at all .

Why in your opinion ADs don't deal with 'the cause'?

Without them pepperminty I wouldn't be here.  Once the brain becomes used to the uptake most users begin to function again.  Since 1988 I've probably had 5 different types successfully , my brain tends to poop out and becomes used to the active ingredient, hence my need to change. 

'many of my friends' - what support have they asked for?  Which ADs are causing them problems?  It took me 9 weeks to withdraw from 1 name I can't remember now it's so long ago: under supervision, as GPs have access to smaller amounts of drug specifically to ease any withdrawal symptoms. 

I've tried CBT and other forms of therapy, latter worked for a while. CBT did nowt.  Alternatives can cause more problems because there is little research done which GPs can refer to. 

[pepperminty]

ADs have never numbed me.  Why don't ADs deal with 'the cause'?

Without them pepperminty I wouldn't be here.  Once the brain becomes used to the uptake most users begin to function again.

'many of my friends' - what support have they asked for?  Which ADs are causing them problems?  It took me 9 weeks to withdraw, under supervision, as GPs have access to smaller amounts of drug specifically to ease any withdrawal symptoms. 

I've tried CBT and other forms of therapy, latter worked for a while. CBT did nowt.  Alternatives can cause more problems because there is little research done which GPs can refer to.

BELOW COPIED FROM THE  NHS WEBSITE :

How antidepressants work
It's not known exactly how antidepressants work.

It's thought they work by increasing levels of chemicals in the brain called neurotransmitters. Certain neurotransmitters, such as serotonin and noradrenaline, are linked to mood and emotion.

Neurotransmitters may also affect pain signals sent by nerves, which may explain why some antidepressants can help relieve long-term pain.

While antidepressants can treat the symptoms of depression, they do not always address its causes. This is why they're usually used in combination with therapy to treat more severe depression or other mental health conditions.

How effective are antidepressants?
Research suggests that antidepressants can be helpful for people with moderate or severe depression.

They're not usually recommended for mild depression, unless other treatments like talking therapy have not helped.



PMxx

[CLKD]

Tnx.  I wonder what is considered 'causation'?  I have both clinical and organic depression and am aware of the difference.  Initially when I was ill I asked for investigations to find out why my brain was depressed but the medical profession wasn't interested.  There are some 'experts' that won't recognise that organic depression is an illness. 

Some still cause organic depression 'clinical' but from their books it's obvious that they don't have 'clinical' depression, instead it's a chemical imbalance in the brain. 

It's finding what works for each of us and that can take a while.  I was 3 months into 1 type of AD when suddenly I realised that I was beginning to feel better. 

[Peanut31]

Hi

I’ve tried counselling, mindfulness, meditation, looked at my diet. I’ve even given up coffee and fizzy drink including the diet ones. I don’t drink alcohol or smoke.

I take vitamins including Magnesium glycinate

I’ve had a member of my close family commit suicide due to them not getting help, and another suffering depression.

I only have one life on this earth and want to live it to the best I can as we all do.

I feel I have explored all avenues. I asked the nurse about alternative HRT treatments but she said the ones I’m on are the only ones on offer via NHS.

I may have to pay the private clinic for further help.

Best wishes

[tambourine queen]

Hey!
I couldn’t tolerate HRT- particularly the progesterone fortnight. It made me an anxious mess!  I actually think it was too many hormones for me at the moment- I still get regular periods. I’m now on setraline and started on 50mg. The first two weeks were hideous but now it’s fine and I’m defo not numb! I also went for some counselling as, although the anxiety was being made much much worse by the hormones, there were triggers I needed to deal with. So a combination of coming off HRT, getting some therapy, starting setraline was what I needed to get the anxiety in a good place. And that led me back to walking, being active etc!
If my meno symptoms get worse then I’d consider HRT again but once I’m much further down the line.
Hope you get things sorted.

[Banjo1973]

Hi Peanut,

Sounds like you're having a really hard time. Sending a hug.

I really do think it might be worth giving the Cyclogest a go, but obviously it's your choice.

My daughter takes sertraline, she was extremely anxious with OCD etc.

It's been a game changer for her - she's now at Uni and so much happier.

She started on 25mg and apart from initial nausea she's had no side effects.

Sending positive energy your way xxx

[Peanut31]

Thank you

I really do appreciate the advice and help.

It took a lot to tell the nurse I was struggling as I’ve come from a family that just gets on with it.

However, I can’t just get on with it, I’m a fixer and I’ve tried everything.

 I’m desperate to feel better.

If I look back I feel I’ve suffered with anxiety for a long time, but just tried to ignore it, and hide it.

The nurse did say, it may be hell for a while, her words, but stick at it.

We have arranged to chat in a few weeks and she’s also given me some online courses I can do too.

Once again thank you for your support and encouragement. X