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[Losingtheplot]

I am either peri or meno unsure which as I don't have periods due to the contraception I am on and have been on HRT for several months now.  I have been taking various supplements alongside to help with joint pain and they seemed to help initially or maybe it was the HRT?!.  I now ache almost daily in my feet, ankles, knees, hips.  Just awful debilitating pain, feel a good 20 years older than I am!!  I exercise regularly but its a battle as even during the exercise routines my joints ache!

Has anyone found any particular supplements that have helped eased the pain?  I am at my wits end with it all as also suffering bladder spasms and issues, have been using ovestin every night for several months.  Have a feeling it may be the utrogestan that I take vaginally that could be the culprit.
I am due to review with GP in a couple of weeks for my HRT and am on a very low dosage of gel so maybe an increase might help.  Just wondering if an increase in oestrogen has helped anyone with joint pain?  I am still very early on my HRT journey and recently found out by accident I had been using the HRT incorrectly! So really maybe that has had an effect

[Luculka]

Hi Losingtheplot! Just like you, I can not be really sure where I am  exactly in the menopause journey, because I don't bleed. I had a thermoablation in april 2023, till then I bled regularly. I am 47. But I am sure, if I hadn't had the ablation, I would be still bleeding for some years. And I am wondering: what if you are actually still bleeding and the Oestrogen is simply too soon for you? I read in an interview with a top menopause-specialist (a endocrinology professor) that as long as women bleed, they don't need extra Estrogen in HRT because even though the ovaries produce less, it is still enough! Could it be that you only need Progesterone? I checked on the internet to see if too much Oestrogen causes joint pain and indeed, it does (too much oestrogen can cause joint inflamation).  Lucy

[Losingtheplot]

Hi Luculka

Ahh right I see this is interesting. Sorry you had to go through the ablation.  I think I may just get my implant removed to be honest and see what happens.  I started HRT earlier this year as I suffered terrible hot flushes, awful anxiety up to the stage where I didn't want to leave the house!!  Panic  attacks waking up at 3am with a sheer panic in my stomach and churning,  brain fog and palpatations.  All this hit me so hard that I had to take time off work on the sick and I started to link these symptoms to peri/meno.  The joint pain I have suffered for several years and I am now 48 years old.  The oestrogen gel is a very small amount 0.5mcg and I had been using this incorrectly just for 14 days of the month and then stopping.  I did feel benefit when I first started and noticed joint pain improve so maybe I need to increase it gradually.
My mam went through menopause in her late 40s so I could well be post meno.  I don't physically bleed and haven't for 13 years since being on the implant.  You could be right as in I might just need progesterone but my GP who is the meno specialist at surgery is in the dark about HRT.  I don't want to stop the HRT as it has helped me massively and I don't want the panic and palpatations to start back up along with the irratic mood swings ( although these do seem to have made a return along with brain fog)

I have been using the gel every day now and do feel much calmer.  It is just all so confusing!!!! I think atleast if I get the contra implant out I can see if I do bleed anymore.

[sheila99]

I read in an interview with a top menopause-specialist (a endocrinology professor) that as long as women bleed, they don't need extra Estrogen in HRT because even though the ovaries produce less, it is still enough!

That is the biggest load of sh*t I have heard in a long time. Look at the number of women on here who have symptoms of oestrogen deficiency but are still peri.
Losingtheplot I had sore hips pre hrt which I had put done to worn out joints. I started hrt because of other symptoms and found the hip pain went so must have been oestrogen related. I think it's likely you'll need a higher dose but I don't think this dose has been given a fair trial because of the way you were taking it.

[Losingtheplot]

yes I do agree I need longer on the current dose and see how things are after

[AngelaH]

That is the biggest load of sh*t I have heard in a long time.

Depends on your level of education 

 

[Luculka]

Reacting to "This is the biggest load...." from Sheila99

Hmm, Sheila99, I am a new member and was trying to help. Your reaction made me quite speechless.

The german specialist that I mentioned is Prof. Dr. Heinz Bohnet, a respected authority in the field of Endocrinology. I translated for you his answer (posted in a german speaking Forum where he answered a question of a 45years old woman with sleep issues, wondering, if she needs estradiol):

 "In your age group, experience has shown that the ovaries still have sufficient residual activity to produce oestradiol. As long as this happens, bleeding will continue. For decades, it has been tried and tested to initially only use the body's own progesterone cyclically, i.e. from the 12th day of the cycle over 12 days. To improve the quality of sleep, the hormone should be taken approx. 1 hour before going to bed. Taking your body measurements into account, 200 mg is preferable. So no estradiol at first!"

[Luculka]

Dear Losingtheplot, hope all will get better with your pains! You surely know the best which regime makes you feel good and sticking to it makes sense. So much in this journey is trial and error (for me at this point for sure). Thank you for your kind words re my endometrial ablation. Thankfully, it was not a bad surgery at all and I decided myself to have it - my excruciating period pains were ruining my life since I was 11.  So as soon as I heard of this surgery, I knew that this will be my saving grace. And it really turned out to be lifechanging...  warm greetings Lucy

[AngelaH]

The german specialist that I mentioned is Prof. Dr. Heinz Bohnet,

The role of progesterone is recognised in Europe and USA, but isn’t by NHS. But….it doesn’t necessary mean Europe and USA are wrong and NHS is right. 

[Losingtheplot]

Dear Losingtheplot, hope all will get better with your pains! You surely know the best which regime makes you feel good and sticking to it makes sense. So much in this journey is trial and error (for me at this point for sure). Thank you for your kind words re my endometrial ablation. Thankfully, it was not a bad surgery at all and I decided myself to have it - my excruciating period pains were ruining my life since I was 11.  So as soon as I heard of this surgery, I knew that this will be my saving grace. And it really turned out to be lifechanging...  warm greetings Lucy

Thank you and your right it is trial and error - pleased things have worked out well for you.  Take Care xxx

[Losingtheplot]

I read in an interview with a top menopause-specialist (a endocrinology professor) that as long as women bleed, they don't need extra Estrogen in HRT because even though the ovaries produce less, it is still enough!

That is the biggest load of sh*t I have heard in a long time. Look at the number of women on here who have symptoms of oestrogen deficiency but are still peri.
Losingtheplot I had sore hips pre hrt which I had put done to worn out joints. I started hrt because of other symptoms and found the hip pain went so must have been oestrogen related. I think it's likely you'll need a higher dose but I don't think this dose has been given a fair trial because of the way you were taking it.

Just re read your reply where you mention your hip pain getting better on oestrogen. Thank you for sharing this with me....it's made me more hopeful that it may also help my pains once I find the correct oestrogen HRT dosage that suits me.😊

[sheila99]

Reacting to "This is the biggest load...." from Sheila99

Hmm, Sheila99, I am a new member and was trying to help. Your reaction made me quite speechless.

The german specialist that I mentioned is Prof. Dr. Heinz Bohnet, a respected authority in the field of Endocrinology. I translated for you his answer (posted in a german speaking Forum where he answered a question of a 45years old woman with sleep issues, wondering, if she needs estradiol):

 "In your age group, experience has shown that the ovaries still have sufficient residual activity to produce oestradiol. As long as this happens, bleeding will continue. For decades, it has been tried and tested to initially only use the body's own progesterone cyclically, i.e. from the 12th day of the cycle over 12 days. To improve the quality of sleep, the hormone should be taken approx. 1 hour before going to bed. Taking your body measurements into account, 200 mg is preferable. So no estradiol at first!"

That isn't what you said.
You said
'as long as women bleed, they don't need extra Estrogen in HRT because even though the ovaries produce less, it is still enough!'
I'm sorry I offended you and I could have put it differently but this statement is simply untrue. If we all produced enough of our own oestrogen in peri they wouldn't be able to sell sequi hrt because no one would need it.
I can only hope there's been some confusion in the translation and it isn't what he believes. We have enough trouble getting appropriate treatment without men telling us we don't have symptoms of oestrogen deficiency.

[sheila99]

That is the biggest load of sh*t I have heard in a long time.

Depends on your level of education 

 

Perhaps the higher your level of education the more 💩 you hear 

[AngelaH]

Perhaps the higher your level of education the more 💩 you hear 

Ability to understand what you hear

[sheila99]

Perhaps the higher your level of education the more 💩 you hear 

Ability to understand what you hear

It's given me the ability to recognise statements that are scientifically inaccurate. I know you rubbish the NHS and they may not be on the cutting edge but every treatment they offer has to be shown to be effective. If women in peri didn't need additional oestrogen then hrt wouldn't be available to us. I don't think there's much dispute that oestrogen levels fall low enough for many women to experience symptoms of oestrogen deficiency before bleeding stops entirely.