Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[VioletAquarius]

Hi

I have a prolapse (bladder & bowel / front & back wall), and urge incontinence, and I've tried loads of different things to help, with no success.

I've been to acupuncture, and seen pelvic floor physio (both nhs & private), where I have done the usual kegels, treatment and breathing exercises for tight pelvic floor, (in case it was that), and also visceral manipulation.  I can't feel anything when I do kegel exercises, although I do very very very occasionally feel a 'let go' of one.

I've also tried the Kegel8 pelvic toner.

I've started taking vagifem pessaries, x2 weekly, I'm thinking to ring my doctor to see if I can increase gradually,  by upping an extra pessary every few weeks until I see an improvement (hopefully).

I'm getting so down now, nothing is helping or working for me.

My questions are:
(1) does anyone know if there's anything else I can try? (to cure it rather than supplements, etc, which only mask the problem), and;
(2) does anybody know what can cause prolpase and/or urge incontinence apart from weak or tight pelvic floor, low estrogen and certain medications?  As I'm wondering if it's due to something not really known about and why nothing's working for me.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.  Thank you!

[Ayesha]

Until someone else comes along with a more informed answer for you, I would say taking 2 Vagifem a week will be next to useless for you. In your situation every day dose would be better, just my opinion though!

[CLKD]

Morning.  Hasn't your GP suggested surgical correction?  Have U been seen by the appropriate Consultant for advice?

Kegel's if not performed correctly may exacerbate the conditions.

Who prescribed 'vagifem'?   U can use these every night for atrophy .........

[Minusminnie]

I've been to acupuncture, and seen pelvic floor physio (both nhs & private), where I have done the usual kegels, treatment and breathing exercises for tight pelvic floor, (in case it was that), and also visceral manipulation. 

I followed a similar route years ago.

You do need to up the local oestrogens to maintain the status quo or improve things. I manage a urethral /anterior prolapse conservatively in this way. Not always perfect.  The GP says my next step is to be referred to a consultant so that may be an idea for you as suggested.

[CLKD]

At least by getting a referral to a Consultant you will have more options and waiting lists are long in most Health Authorities.  Knowledge is power ;-).

[VioletAquarius]

Thank you all.

My GP prescribed the Vagifem, I'm hoping to get an appointment tomorrow and hopefully they will let me increase to everyday.

I was referred to some specialist a while back, don't know what their title was, eg urologist, gynecologist- Is that who you mean by consultant?  All he did was offer pessary or surgery.

Minusminnie - you say "not always perfect", sorry, what do you mean? What isn't always perfect?

[Taz2]

Have you had a course of urodynamics? This is where you have tiny sensors placed in your vagina and bottom and these are connected to a computer. As you practice a kegel it shows on the screen as to how powerful it is and whether you are doing the exercises correctly.. I had this a few times before my prolapses finally worsened and I had a hysterectomy (womb prolapse) plus anterior (bladder) repair. This sorted things nicely for five years but then the bladder prolapsed again which is common.

Losing any excess weight is important to stop prolapses worsening together with not lifting anything heavy and by heavy they mean an over full shopping bag. Too much standing isn't good either

Taz x

[KaraShannon]

VioletAquarius, I also think the vagifem would need to be increased to daily.  Dr Louise Newson talks about how it's only a small dose.

I think there is also something that can be fitted internally, I cannot remember what but I've heard that this can give the ligaments internally a break and that could help strengthen them if they are stretched.  So there's that possibility.

I do think vagifem should help but some other reasons, well urge incontinence can be caused by an overactive bladder.  I suspect your's is because of the prolapse making the bladder overactive, but either way, pumpkin seed oil can make a difference.  It calms the bladder muscle and also is reported to raise testosterone in that area.  I learned of this years ago when I kept getting urine infections (another thing it does is help the bladder empty fully, because if it doesn't that can irritate it).  So it's a good thing and not just a mask of the problem.

Hopefully your doctor will suggest a significant increase in vagifem and you'll start to notice a difference, fingers crossed for you. 

I still get prolapse symptoms at a certain time of the month, my estradiol level is down now, so it might be time to change my hrt.  I think having a cycle now might be taxing on my body, it may not be a natural cycle either, I'm not sure.  I have a hard time with vagifem, I'm just starting to reintroduce it as I was getting migraine with it (but my oestrogen levels were already too high, so let's see).  It's generally not supposed to do that though and many people are fine on it.

[Minusminnie]

Thank you all.

My GP prescribed the Vagifem, I'm hoping to get an appointment tomorrow and hopefully they will let me increase to everyday.

I was referred to some specialist a while back, don't know what their title was, eg urologist, gynecologist- Is that who you mean by consultant?  All he did was offer pessary or surgery.

Minusminnie - you say "not always perfect", sorry, what do you mean? What isn't always perfect?

The consultant would have been a urogynecologist.
I have vulva pain which you may not have and use Ovestin for that but it is not always perfect & I still get burning pain at times.
[quote author=Taz2 link=topic=67648.msg923116#msg923116 date=

Losing any excess weight is important to stop prolapses worsening together with not lifting anything heavy and by heavy they mean an over full shopping bag. Too much standing isn't good either

Taz x
[/quote]

Couldn’t agree more with that. My warning came when I lifted lump of a grandson when he was little and I felt something give. I am now very careful lifting anything in the garden and rethink ways to do it or get husband to lift. I’ve found that lifting down is not so bad as lifting up from the ground but best avoided really. I’ve recently got a shopping bag on wheels with a colourful pattern. I don’t think they are an old lady item anymore my daughters friend in her 40s has one apparently for local shopping !

Hope the GP increases the vagifem for you.

[flossie fiddler]

Have you been offered a vaginal pessary? My mum has bladder and bowel prolapse, which were corrected 30 years ago with hysterectomy and repair.

It’s now come down again, and at 87 she doesn’t want any kind of surgical intervention. She has been fitted with a pessary, which holds everything in place, and she said it’s wonderful! She’s still driving, bowling, and for her age, very active. Has it changed every 4 months.

[VioletAquarius]

Thank you so much everyone, will look into all your suggestions.

My GP happily agreed to let me use vagifem every night, she said using vagifem for 1 year was like taking just 1 hrt in pill form.

Taz2 - where would I do/ who does urodynamics?   

KaraShannon - Is Dr Louise Newton's talk one of the videos on Google? Do you know which one it is, I cant find it, are you able to send the link please? 

The thing inserted internally to give ligaments a break - do you think it's the pessary?

You say  urge incontinence can be caused by an overactive bladder and suspect mine is because of the prolapse making the bladder overactive - do you know how/why a prolapse can do this?  And what would raised testosterone do to me in that area?

Minusminnie - thank you.

Flossing fiddler - was her first pessary the correct size? Heard that it can take a few go's to get the right size.  Does the hospital or GP change it?, and why does it have to be changed so often?

[flossie fiddler]

She didn’t get the right size first time. It’s taken a few goes. She was great with one size, but it caused soreness when it was removed due to VA. She’s now using Estrogen cream, and they went down 2 sizes, but she kept having to push it back up. Took her on Tuesday, and they still didn’t have the in between size. I was quite assertive and said that this would be the second wasted appointment we would have had.

So they then suggested a shelf pessary, which the nurse said was the best type for my mum’s type of prolapse, which involves the bladder and bowel. Goodness knows why they didn’t offer it first off. Cost, probably.

Anyway, she said it’s a lot better.

Regarding the 4 monthly changes, it’s to clean it and check that everything is healthy, and to avoid infection if there’s any areas that are rubbing. My mum said a few moments of discomfort for 4 months of feeling normal are well worth it. She’s a very stoic 87 year old!

[VioletAquarius]

Thank you flossie fiddler.

And it's great to hear it's working for your mum and she's happy with it.