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[LC1962]

Hello.  I used to be Sweet Pea…but no longer have my email or password, so had to re register!

I was always on here asking for help regarding overwhelming anxiety, and came back to share something and ask advice.  I am 62 now, and suffered dreadfully with anxiety from peri right through menopause, some here describe it as the morning dreads, or morning dooms.  For around ten years, I have literally woken every morning feeling like I am about to face the dentist from hell, or sit a terrible exam.  Churning stomach, butterflies, no energy, no motivation…staring into space, almost crying, just getting in the shower is like climbing a mountain.  I usually feel a lot better by lunchtime, but this really impacted my life and I am always terrible sad and depressed.  Life has been crap for so long.    I have been on Prozac for a long time, but reached what the Americans call ‘poop out’ where it no longer seemed to help, or perhaps it just wasn’t the right cure for my anxiety.  My sister took her own life at age 56, and my mother suffered with crippling ‘nerves’ as she called it, so I knew I was probably genetically predisposed.  I also knew, as I genuinely have such an easy wonderful life and husband, that it must be physiological …cortisol imbalance or adrenal something….as I have no reason to feel this way. 
Sadly, I’ve been self medicating with alcohol for a number of years, I don’t drive, and don’t work, so I would have a few glasses of wine just to get that ‘ahh, there it is’ woozy, don’t care feeling.   Of course, alcohol makes me even more anxious for different reasons and I knew I had to get help somehow. 

To cut a rather long story a little shorter, I joined an online alcohol group for support and advice  There, I met a woman who told me she felt exactly the same way as me, and found her saviour in progesterone gel.  I have tried HRT years ago, Premarin, but it gave me visual migraines, so I stopped.  I still however use topical Ovestin cream for atrophy.  This lady lives in France where you can get the gel OTC.  So….I managed to get some gel from a French pharmacy who ship to the uk.  I looked into it, and found that two, 2.5cm of 1mg gel rubbed into the soft areas of skin once a day was unlikely to be dangerous …I also thought it was unlikely to work at such a low dose but thought I had nothing to lose.  After two weeks..the difference is life changing.  I am waking in the morning, bright, alert, happy,  motivated….I’m like a different person.  I have a GP appointment where I hope she will be sympathetic and supportive to my experiment and prescribe it for me properly. 

In the meantime,  can anyone who knows about hormones explain to me why this might work so well for me?  I really like to understand things.  Is there such a thing as estrogen dominance, and should I have been ‘balanced’ by progesterone all these wasted years?   Is it safe for me to take, as I still have uterus/ovaries?  Is there a better way to apply or take progesterone that I can ask my GP about?  ( I also feel I need to say I had a terrible time with PMT as a girl, and suffered with post partum depression…I also was able to get pregnant very, very easily. )   Latterly suffered with dreadful migraines too. 

I’m happy to say I have more or less stopped drinking, almost overnight as the obsession with altering my mind with booze has gone!

Any input gratefully received.
Thanks


Edit:spelling

[CLKD]

Well done on stopping the alcohol which is also a depressive.

If a lady has womb she will require some form of progesterone to cleanse the womb and stop a build up.  If your self medicating is working, stick with it.  U may not require this for many years, or it may keep you stable for ever.  Try not to over think it, it's a replacement therapy and sometimes a reason isn't found.  Simply that the body responds positively. 

Do U keep a mood/food/symptom diary to chart progress?  I had intense sudden anxiety in the early hours, probably due to cortisol surges.  I would wake, terrified  .

Little steps.  How do U propose to continue getting the gel?  MayB ask your GP for a referral to a dedicated menopause clinic for advice.  Let us know how you get on.

[CrispyChick]

Hi

This is amazing!!!!

Yes. There absolutely is such a thing as estrogen dominance. It's an imbalance between estrogen and prog. You can have it even if your estrogen is not high.

Our progesterone plummets dramatically in peri - long before estrogen.

I have this. But unfortunately I've not found my magic cure. I am taking prog in cream form, from a private bhrt clinic. But it's very early days on my retrial.

Can I ask how quickly you felt the impact? If you're only just past the two week mark? Also what total dose do you take a day of this gel??!

Honestly - if you've found something to work, stick with it. If your GP is supportive, the only things they can give you will be oral utrogestan or cyclogest pessaries - both very high doses, which bring their own problems. I dont think the gel is licenced in UK - bug I could be wrong.

I am soooo pleased for you. estrogen dominance has been wrecking my life for the last 6 years. All the NHS offer me is estrogen. So please, do be careful when discussing with your GP. The UK do not believe estrogen dominance exists. No idea why. It exists in other parts of the world.

Good luck xxx

[Gnatty]

Hi there, firstly I am so thrilled for you. Secondly I can really relate as it made such a huge difference for me too. I use utrogestan every other day but would prefer to find something I could use every day instead - is your gel easy to obtain, I would like to try.
I echo CrispyChick, your GP may not be on board although as you are not taking systemic oestrogen you don't have the worry of your womb thickening. I don't have my womb so it's not a problem I have to deal with either, luckily.
I hope you continue to feel like this, with it being a gel you can always adjust your dose in the future should you need to. xx

[LC1962]

Thanks all for the support and encouragement!    Oooh,   I didn’t even think perhaps could NOT get this gel in the UK on the NHS.   It’s used in France,  available over the counter for breast pain.  2.5cm gel, it comes with a measuring scoop, so one measurement on the inside of each thigh.  I don’t rub it in well as it’s supposed to work better if naturally absorbed.  It’s called Progestogel, and I found it here. 

https://moncoinsante.com/mcs/en/various-medications/11140-progestogel-1-tube-80g-for-targeted-areas-applicator-3400931314127.html

[LC1962]

Hi

This is amazing!!!!

Yes. There absolutely is such a thing as estrogen dominance. It's an imbalance between estrogen and prog. You can have it even if your estrogen is not high.

Our progesterone plummets dramatically in peri - long before estrogen.

I have this. But unfortunately I've not found my magic cure. I am taking prog in cream form, from a private bhrt clinic. But it's very early days on my retrial.

Can I ask how quickly you felt the impact? If you're only just past the two week mark? Also what total dose do you take a day of this gel??!

Honestly - if you've found something to work, stick with it. If your GP is supportive, the only things they can give you will be oral utrogestan or cyclogest pessaries - both very high doses, which bring their own problems. I dont think the gel is licenced in UK - bug I could be wrong.

I am soooo pleased for you. estrogen dominance has been wrecking my life for the last 6 years. All the NHS offer me is estrogen. So please, do be careful when discussing with your GP. The UK do not believe estrogen dominance exists. No idea why. It exists in other parts of the world.

Good luck xxx

Hi!   I started noticing a better mood after about a week…after two weeks it’s unmistakable.  I’m me again.  The gel comes with a plastic thing to measure it out….it’s 1mg prog.   I squeeze  2.5 in to the measurement then rub it on one thigh and do the same on the other.  It disappears quickly…got a high alcohol content I think, smells like isopropyl.  Thanks so much for your input…at least I’m armed with info!   She’s not my regular GP…she has a special interest in woman’s health and is very sympathetic.  Takes forever to get an appointment though, its in mid November! 

Hope you get your anxiety sorted too…isn’t it hellish.  Xxx

[CrispyChick]

I've seen it LC1962.

Yes, the anxiety is hellish. It's not my worst symptom though - I get poisioned from high estrogen. My own. It's awful.

By all means speak to your GP. But just remember you have found something that works. If they offer you alternatives - you'll need to weigh it up. Personally I'd keep buying from France. But then, I've been through 2 years of prog trials and still not sorted. And, as gnatty highlights, she's taking utro in a random fashion.

100mg utro in one hit tends to be too big. Certainly was for me.

And, unfortunately, I've found the NHS, including specialist meno clinic absolutely in the dark about low prog. Instead they just encourage me to take more estrogen 😞. I've had to pay a lot of money to a bhrt clinic to learn about this.

Mary G takes Prog gel as part of her hrt. She might be along with some info. Not sure if it's the same one.

I am so pleased if you. You're story sounds horrific and, if I'm being honest, very similar to my own. Just left to get on with it because conventional hrt (E with P) doesn't fit.

It's definitely more common in parts of Europe and the US to treat with just progesterone. Through all my research, it looks pretty safe. Certainly safer than estrogen.

Keep us updated. X

[Gnatty]

CrispyChick if it helps, I find utro every day just way too much too. Maybe my only taking it every other day stops that accumulation that then brings about the low mood etc.

[Scampidoodle]

Hey OP - so glad you’ve found this gel that works!
Oestrogen dominance or an imbalance with progesterone is definitely a thing.
It causes me untold issues and I’m get to find the right progesterone I can tolerate. I recognise that morning dread so so well. Were you getting other symptoms too?

Hope the Gp is helpful. The UK is terrible for this issue. I’ve also had hrt given to me and it made me so much worse. Came off that years ago. I’m 44. I had a recent blood test taken on a day I felt absolutely dreadful and actually unhinged and my oestrogen came back as 999pmol! I need progesterone.

[Scampidoodle]

CrispyChick if it helps, I find utro every day just way too much too. Maybe my only taking it every other day stops that accumulation that then brings about the low mood etc.

Really interested in this Gnatty - what symptoms were you getting on utrogestan daily? I’ve tried it continually orally and vaginally and I got all sorts of symptoms. And an extended cycle. I’ve never tried it just in luteal or alternate days.

[LC1962]

I've seen it LC1962.

Yes, the anxiety is hellish. It's not my worst symptom though - I get poisioned from high estrogen. My own. It's awful.

Hi again.  That sounds awful for you.    Can I ask you, did you ever get a terrible taste in your mouth when it all started?  When I hit peri, I got THE most poisonous, constant taste that I could not get rid of.  It lasted for ages and I’ve never forgotten it.  Again, my GP was unhelpful, telling me he had ‘never of heard that as any kind of symptom of anything’.  I thought it was from a recent dental implant and was considering having it removed, when I found out that as the ovaries reach the end of their life they can sometimes have a last desperate flurry or push…and deliver estrogen in shed loads, and it’s pumped out in your saliva!  Yuk,  it was awful.   
Thanks again. 
Thank god for this group.  It’s only by speaking to other women I realise I’m not going mad. 

[LC1962]

Hey OP - so glad you’ve found this gel that works!
Oestrogen dominance or an imbalance with progesterone is definitely a thing.
It causes me untold issues and I’m get to find the right progesterone I can tolerate. I recognise that morning dread so so well. Were you getting other symptoms too?

Hope the Gp is helpful. The UK is terrible for this issue. I’ve also had hrt given to me and it made me so much worse. Came off that years ago. I’m 44. I had a recent blood test taken on a day I felt absolutely dreadful and actually unhinged and my oestrogen came back as 999pmol! I need progesterone.

Scampidoodle, can you tell me any other symptoms you’ve had from estrogen dominance/imbalance?  I’m 62.  I really thought everything would have settled by now, but I appear to still be very susceptible to hormonal fluctuations.  Things also seem to come in cycles…like they used to, but my anxiety was pretty constant.
Maybe you could try the Progestogel.  The postage is a but steep at around 20 but I order five at a time as the best by date was 2027 on the last tube.
Xx

[Scampidoodle]

Hiya,

I get a difficulty to lose weight, easily gaining weight around my thighs, tummy area, heart palpitatons, anxiety, jittery, histamine issues including gut pain, rashes, itchy, watery eye, hot flushes, temperature dysregulation, rosacea. Also awful pms. I also had bad post natal depression. Cysts on ovaries in my teens and twenties.

A lot of these can be low oestrogen symptoms but not for all. High oestrogen causes your histamine levels to rise causing all sorts of issues with mast cells whjch are immune cells. Can cause chronic fatigue and allergy symptoms.

[vintagefiend]

this is really interesting- thanks for letting us know, Op! I'll be following with interest

Gnatty-
hi!! can I ask you something? firstly really pleased to see that you're still doing well. I'm currently taking progesterone- in bijuve- 100mg every day but would like to cut down to alternate days. Do you take it orally on alternate days? good luck with finding an alternative that you can take every day. I certainly agree that daily utro (or equivalent) is too much!

[Gnatty]

Hi there, sorry I only just read your post. Yes I am taking it orally alternate days. The problem with vaginally for me - I think! - is that I absorb even more that way and it makes me hot in the middle of the night!! And not in a good way ..... 😂 xx