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[meno-mel]

A nasty incident happened yesterday which I won't go into, but it got me wondering why are these people assuming I have cancer?
It didn't make sense so I try to make the nonsensical make sense and I'm driving myself nuts in the process.

So now front and centre of my brain are the thoughts, "people think I have cancer because of my symptoms" and I'm really really scared now and can't stop bursting into tears. Before yesterday's incident I had been very successfully in denial and doing fine.

I had precancerous cells of the most serious 3rd level abnormal on my cervix, but not cancer itself. I had a cauterisation and all was ok. I never believed it was precancerous cells anyway, that might be denial, not sure, but I don't believe them.
I'm up to date on my smear tests, those make me bleed btw, dunno why but luckily it doesn't contaminate the sample any more, they took so many back to back repeat smears when I was in my mid teens because every time I would contaminate the sample with my blood. That's right, it was my fault 
Not surprised they eventually found an abnormal one, it's known teenage girls don't have the typical cervix cells until a few years after periods start, mine started around age 15, they called me precancerous and cauterised me at 18. The smear test they took 2 days before the cauterisation came back as normal, after I'd had the procedure.

So that's why I don't believe it was precancerous. I also think it could be I'm not post meno, this is the nurse's opinion, I started late, like my sisters, menopause at 55 would be more like my sisters than menopause at 51, we are five sisters btw, so a small sample, lol, but relevant all the same. I'm 53, nearly 54, my eldest sister hadn't even started stopping at this age.

Fast forward to age 51, my periods finally stopped after being highly unpredictable for about four years and my hot flushes began as soon as my periods stopped. I knew that was menopause, I then came here and found out the amazing info available here and since then I discovered I already had most of the menopause symptoms all through my 40s, I just hadn't known it could be menopause while I had periods, I thought I had dementia and all manner of other strange illnesses which were actually typical symptoms in menopause.

I told my GP a month after starting HRT that I had a period and didn't want periods again, she said it'll settle, don't worry.
We have switched my HRT due to mood side effects a few times and I take utrogestan 200mg 12 days a month now alongside Estradot50 patches, the utrogestan are taken vaginally as that stops me feeling depressed on it and lessens the gastro disturbance and insomnia I feel on it if taken orally.

But my "post menopausal bleeding" continued despite a few switches of different HRTs and has now been going on 15/16 months. For a lot of that time I've been on the waiting list for a scan and that scan is this week, on day 28 or 29 of my cycle depending on whether the first day of bleeding is day1, or day0 as I've seen American videos call it.

I've had my head firmly in the sand, refusing to come up for air, but now I've been jolted by a shock into thinking all the thoughts I've up until now denied exist.

Last night I searched here and eventually found a story like mine from years back, symptoms like mine, the woman felt fine and dismissed all the fuss like me, then further down the thread she is diagnosed with cancer and has a hysterectomy.

It's the ONLY story I could find that sounded like mine, after months of searching.

And it's been going on over a year now, I'm terrified.

[Honeybee2]

So sorry that you are going through such a hard time . Although I can’t give you any knowledge or advise with this matter  I just wanted to acknowledge your post and hope you get things sorted soon I wish you well meno-Mel xxx

[Dierdre]

I'm not on HRT so not up on the treatments but are you on a continuous post meno or peri meno treatment?  You would bleed every month on the systemic one. I'm sure someone will be along who knows.
You had your smear tests very young, was there a reason for this.

[Kathleen]

Hello meno-mel


I am so sorry that you are suffering.

It seems the nasty incident that you experienced has really distressed you but perhaps the scan appointment is also adding to your worry. I wonder if there is some comfort in knowing that the scan will give you the answers you so desperately need.

I wish I could help more but I am thinking of you and I wish you well for your appointment and beyond.

Take care and sending lots of hugs.

K.

[Flossieteacake]

Aw, Mel, I am so sorry to hear all that you are going through. I am sending you a virtual hug and thinking of you. I hope you are able to discuss your concerns with your GP. I apologise if this is not an option but just wanted to reply to your post to let you know you are in my thoughts.

[CLKD]

Morning.  I'm sorry that you feel so upset.  What is the worst that could happen?   Is it the waiting for the smear appt. bothering you the most or your worries about past procedures?

If you could explain the 'nasty incident' which happened yesterday , we can offer up advice and support.

It is awful not to know what is affecting us.  The 'what ifs' take over.  I found that once a diagnosis was made and a treatment plan put into place, any anxiety lessened. 

Prior to the final bleed [menopause], as oestrogen levels drop we may notice changes that we were not expecting.  Also, changes that some GPs R not aware about so pass off symptoms as 'other' issues.

Some HRT regimes will produce a bleed.  Altering what we are prescribed too often may throw the body into free fall.  It is suggested that HRT should be trialled for at least 3 months to allow the body to adjust, however, some symptoms are too intense for ladies to continue.  So the GP alters the treatment.

........ and breath.  I can't remember whether you have your scan appt.?  U need to take someone with you to listen in case you miss anything said as well as a list of your worries.

Not surprised they eventually found an abnormal one, it's known teenage girls don't have the typical cervix cells until a few years after periods start, mine started around age 15, they called me precancerous and cauterised me at 18. The smear test they took 2 days before the cauterisation came back as normal, after I'd had the procedure.
.       Sounds within normal procedures to me.  If following the cauterisation the smear test was 'normal', it meant that all the cells had been removed.  There is no reason for any medic to lie to a patient.  Did U have a follow up smear about 3-4 months later?

R U alone today?

[meno-mel]

I'm not on HRT so not up on the treatments but are you on a continuous post meno or peri meno treatment?  You would bleed every month on the systemic one. I'm sure someone will be along who knows.
You had your smear tests very young, was there a reason for this.

I bleed every month on HRT whether it's continuous or sequi. The first year I trialled two conti regimens, bled on both, then since March I tried Evorel50+provera on sequi with horrific side effects, then Estradot50+utrogestan as now and neither had any effect on the timing of my bleeds, I still bled, not when they expect, same as I did on conti.

I was laughing saying my body is too young to be told I'm menopausal, of course I still have periods, I'm a young 53, my body ignores HRT expectations because I'm just too young and not there yet.

A lot of delusional pride there about my youthfullness, lol, not logical and I'm seeing that now after being kicked out of my comfort zone unexpectedly, I'm being frighteningly rational about the fact post meno bleeding can and does signal endometrial cancer, or other cancers, my aunt only knew she had cancer from a sudden vaginal bleed in her late 70s, by then there was a two inch tumour in her vagina, she survived because they said she was very young for someone in their 70s, so they did chemo where normally they don't as you approach 80.

Smear tests were compulsory then if you took the combined pill. I left home at 16 and my boyfriend moved in with me shortly afterwards, I needed the pill and it was withdrawan every time I refused the next smear test, maximum gap of every six months because at three months the doctor would grumble that I'd dodged it, at six months he'd put his foot down and refuse to prescribe the pill until he smear tested me personally and always painfully. I absolutely hated it but contraceptives were so tightly controlled in the 1980s I'd absolutely no choice. I believe it was basically a punishment for being unmarried and on the pill. Yes, really, there were still those awful mother and baby homes at the time and people would get arrested for smuggling/selling contraceptives. It was a different time for sure!
When a family planning clinic opened nearby I never went back to him for the pill and I never needed another smear test unless three years had elapsed after that!

Thank you all for the support, I don't know if I'm coming or going today, I can't stop this (maybe nervous?) sweating, I got up damp, soon became drenched, changed into a new nightie, soaked that, got dressed in tshirt, soaked through that, now in a tank top mopping under my arms with a tissue.
It's only 10.36am!
Oh it would make sense my headaches might be dehydration?

[CLKD]

I don't know which health authority you were under, unless in N Ireland - when I went on The Pill at 17, smears weren't a 'thing'.  I didn't have my first when the NHS decided to offer them to women until I was 22.  (1970s).  Now nearly 70.  I was regularly called and fortunately never had a problem.

Some GPs simply didn't like prescribing The Pill to unmarried women.  The NHS had more control until in recent years, now patients are more likely to query treatments offered or change Practice.  At that time my GP asked what I would do if he were RC and didnt' believe in contraception - my instant reply was "Your religious beliefs shouldn't interfere with your treatment of patients".  Not that I'm feisty - much 

An appt. with a dedicated menopause clinic to discuss your symptoms pre-HRT as well as your regular bleeds - which may be your own hormones - would be my advice, not a Gynae as they often don't know much about HRT 

[Dotty]

Hi if you use a sequential regime of progesterone then you will get a bleed regardless of whether you are post or peri menopause , so I can’t see what your doctor is concerned about.

[CLKD]

Tnx Dotty . 

What R U terrified about meno-mel 

[meno-mel]

Morning.  I'm sorry that you feel so upset.  What is the worst that could happen?   Is it the waiting for the smear appt. bothering you the most or your worries about past procedures?

If you could explain the 'nasty incident' which happened yesterday , we can offer up advice and support.

It is awful not to know what is affecting us.  The 'what ifs' take over.  I found that once a diagnosis was made and a treatment plan put into place, any anxiety lessened. 

Prior to the final bleed [menopause], as oestrogen levels drop we may notice changes that we were not expecting.  Also, changes that some GPs R not aware about so pass off symptoms as 'other' issues.

Some HRT regimes will produce a bleed.  Altering what we are prescribed too often may throw the body into free fall.  It is suggested that HRT should be trialled for at least 3 months to allow the body to adjust, however, some symptoms are too intense for ladies to continue.  So the GP alters the treatment.

........ and breath.  I can't remember whether you have your scan appt.?  U need to take someone with you to listen in case you miss anything said as well as a list of your worries.

Not surprised they eventually found an abnormal one, it's known teenage girls don't have the typical cervix cells until a few years after periods start, mine started around age 15, they called me precancerous and cauterised me at 18. The smear test they took 2 days before the cauterisation came back as normal, after I'd had the procedure.
.       Sounds within normal procedures to me.  If following the cauterisation the smear test was 'normal', it meant that all the cells had been removed. 

I'll answer each bit in turn CLKD because I think you misunderstood me, I can't seem to be understood atm so not your fault.

I don't have a smear appointment, that was just my past "cancer" history

Yes, what ifs are the worst. My Granny was so pleased when she was diagnosed with cancer. She'd been fobbed off with paracetamol for a year, including after the cancer had spread to her bones, liver etc. She was pleased she was finally believed. Never one to make a fuss, she didn't exaggarate illness, she never had any illnesses, she was the healthiest person I knew growing up for sure. Once she was diagnosed, she was looking forward to seeing my grandad and died soon after, rather than dragging it out with chemo.
It was probably breast cancer but the doctors said there was no point investigating further when she wasn't accepting any treatment except morphine, so I'll never know how to answer the question about hormone cancers in the family!
I'm going to throw up, sorry, I'll do this later

[discogirl]

hi meno-mel

I just wanted to say im so sorry you're going through such a tough time.

just wanted you to know i'm thinking of you.

take care x

[meno-mel]

So many kind voices, it really makes a difference, I'm almost in tears again, but this time because I'm glad of the support.
Thank you all.
I was replying to CLKD before my nausea got the better of me, that is persistantly one of the worst symptoms, along with being soaking wet all the time, it's not even as if HRT is some magic bullet the way my GP thinks it is, I've not felt much better on HRT yet.
Anyway I have cyclizine and it's effective, so I'll continue!

I agree my anxiety is worse and will be better if they tell me I'm ok or tell me what is wrong.

My initial scan appointment is on Friday.
All the bleeding was covered by being "within six months of starting a new HRT" except Feb & March this year, Feb's bleed was after seven months, my March bleed was after 8 months on that conti, 12 months on conti in total, bled every month I took it.

I know some regimens cause bleeding, the problem is all regimens cause bleeding for me, conti or sequi doesn't matter.

Give me hrt and I bleed, but I'm post menopausal so I shouldn't bleed, so what the hell is being fed by the hrt, if it's not some growth of some sort?

Yes, wild speculation I know, but I'm really scared.
They switched me to sequi because I had periods for a year on conti even despite being post menopausal, so they said sequi allowed for the bleed. The bleed doesn't happen when they say of course, why would it do that after a lifetime of being very subborn, lol.

Not surprised they eventually found an abnormal one, it's known teenage girls don't have the typical cervix cells until a few years after periods start, mine started around age 15, they called me precancerous and cauterised me at 18. The smear test they took 2 days before the cauterisation came back as normal, after I'd had the procedure.
.       Sounds within normal procedures to me.  If following the cauterisation the smear test was 'normal', it meant that all the cells had been removed.  There is no reason for any medic to lie to a patient.  Did U have a follow up smear about 3-4 months later?

I moved away after the procedure so didn't have any follow up smear whatsoever, lol. Just the normal routine ones every 3-5 years since.
You misread it, the smear test was taken two days before the op, they told me afterwards it had been completely normal but did the op anyway without informing me the latest test came back normal. I trust them to tell the truth, but my experience is that it's rarely the whole truth, they use the rest for manipulation, like contradictory test results might make her change her mind about the op, so let's not mention it. To be fair they probably didn't have the results yet either, but if they did I wasn't told.
What R U terrified about meno-mel 
Um, well that would be the cancer thing.

If I have a touch of paranoia, that's because they often are out to get you, lol.

[CLKD]

You're correct, I mis-read what you typed  .  Sorry.

There is sometimes a little blood on a smear slide - if smears are difficult to obtain there are now several different ways of taking a sample.  I believe that after 70 we have to request exams   

How many years after your last monthly bleed did U begin HRT and can you remember why?  If the ovaries continue to pump out hormones it mayB that the regime has stimulated them enough to cause a regular bleed.  A menopause specialist may have better advice about that 1. 

[meno-mel]

You're correct, I mis-read what you typed  .  Sorry.

There is sometimes a little blood on a smear slide - if smears are difficult to obtain there are now several different ways of taking a sample.  I believe that after 70 we have to request exams   

How many years after your last monthly bleed did U begin HRT and can you remember why?  If the ovaries continue to pump out hormones it mayB that the regime has stimulated them enough to cause a regular bleed.  A menopause specialist may have better advice about that 1.

I've always bled at every smear test except for the one I had age 45. That was the first time it didn't bleed, I thought is it connected to age? I've bled on the two since then! I have a retro tilted uterus or whatever they call it, probably why they almost always manage to cut me.

Why HRT?
My night sweats were keeping me awake, now they don't wake me as much as they used to, I sleep on and my husband tells me how soaking wet I was all night, he asks how can I sleep like that?
It's not the improvement I was after but an improvement nonetheless!

I was just over a year post meno starting HRT. My friend is a nurse and told me if I could wait until then there would be a lot more available for prescription, so as I was scared of progesterone depression, undecided and not in a hurry, I waited until then.
I have been switched every 3-8 months in the last 16 months, I've tried four oestrogens and five progesterones in that time, first year on conti, second year on sequi. I've now got utrogestan as number five and it might be ok vaginally, I've not decided if it's ok, but it is a million times better than the others!

There are some ways that I feel better that I don't want to lose. I've barely left the house since the pandemic because my anxiety was crippling me, I'm still on prozac and not a specific anti anxiety med, so I think HRT might be helping that, but I'm not sure.

I'll stop it for sure if it's been doing me harm, but how can I know that when I've not even had a face to face appointment with anyone in all this time? I had to go get my BP read and sent to the GP, so I met that nurse, lol, noone else.

My scan on Friday is definitely in person, with the menopause specialist nurse team. Appointments somewhat like hen's teeth, I'm hanging onto mine even though it is exactly four fridays after my last period started, or my last breakthrough bleed as my GP says, but they come about every four weeks.

That fact has been keeping me sane, cancer doesn't have a four week cycle.

Then of course as soon as it got right into my mind last night, way past all the denial and cowardice, I began to think of cancers of parts of the body that are connected to the cycle, could they have cyclical bleeding? Yes I think so.

If it wasn't this Friday, I've worked myself up into such a state I'd pay to go private now, but I didn't think the wait would be so long at the start.