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[Ann B]

Hi all, I am new to the site and have a number of urinary health-related questions.  Please excuse me fo launching straight in.

My first one concerns whether urine should be maintained in the alkaline or acid range in order to assist in the prevention of UTIs.

I find that bona fide medical information on the Net is contradictory on this subject.   What are your lived experiences and knowledge and strategies on this?

I had a surgical menopause a number of years ago, then bladder uplift surgery.  I have long-standing chronic constipation, and can also no longer push much, in order to protect the bladder surgery.  Due to the latter, for the past 12 years, I have been taking magnesium powder most nights.  It is an effective and also healthful treatment, but it alkalises my urine, which is observable in morning urine dipstick tests.

In the past 2 years, I have experienced 2-3 UTIs, and significantly high and persistent leucocytes in my urine.   I believe this is probably due to low oestrogen and VA,  and is something I am also trying to find a workaround and will address with another following question.

A urologist has advised that I stop the magnesium as he believes the alkalinity of my urine is facilitating these urinary problems.  I have tried the widest range of constipation treatments and strategies, and magnesium is the only safe and effective treatment I have found, for daily and long-term use.  I am also not convinced the urologist is correct regarding the urine alkalinity issue.  WDYT regarding the latter?

I have concluded that there is possible online confusion and conflation because perhaps the vagina needs to have an acidic environment whilst the urinary system should be alkaline.  WDYT?

[Donna-paul]

I have an embedded uti and with the only NHS clinic in uk and they want youurine acid as bugs don’t like this environment. I would recommend d mannose Vit c and cranberry pac 36mg to start with. Also google hiprex it’s an alternative to long term antibiotics and can help to prevent uti.

[Flossieteacake]

Hello and welcome to the forum. Are you taking any localised oestrogen for the VA? I think that would help you.

[Ann B]

Hi Flossieteacake

Thanks for the welcome and reply.

No I am currently considering vaginal oestrogen and have posted another question about it.

Ann B

[Flossieteacake]

Hi Flossieteacake

Thanks for the welcome and reply.

No I am currently considering vaginal oestrogen and have posted another question about it.

Ann B

I would try localised oestrogen. Perhaps a cream such as Ovestin so you can try a tiny bit and see how you find it.

[CLKD]

have replied in your other thread ........

[Ann B]

I have an embedded uti and with the only NHS clinic in uk and they want youurine acid as bugs don’t like this environment. I would recommend d mannose Vit c and cranberry pac 36mg to start with. Also google hiprex it’s an alternative to long term antibiotics and can help to prevent uti.

Hi, and many thanks for your reply.

I find the p.h. debate very confusing.  I have read many medical papers on the Net and some say maintain an alkaline environment in the bladder and others say acid.  I then began to wonder if the vagina and urinary system should be regarded in a compartmentalised fashion, ie acidic environment for the vagina and alkaline for the urinary system.  I wonder if treatment is often conflated between the two areas.

To add to this I am not exactly sure if my problems are UTI or VA based, hence my other thread.

It is very difficult to find a GP or medic who has a holistic approach.

I have been offered a prescription of Hiprex by a uro/gyn, but when I read the potential side effects it worried me, particularly concerning the eyes.  I have a history of eye issues.

I have always opted for natural treatments wherever possible, so would tend to come down in favour of the more natural treatments you suggested.

[Kathleen]

Hello Ann B and welcome to the forum.

I have very little knowledge or experience on this subject but I have two snippets of information that may interest you.

Firstly a tablespoon of ground flaxseed daily was recommended to my friend who was experiencing horrendous constipation and secondly if you are having UTIs and tests indicate e coli bacteria then refraining from handling or eating chicken may help you. This was the conclusion reached by an American hospital who found that e coli from chickens was migrating into the bladder and causing frequent UTIs in their female patients. They published their findings and as soon as the women avoided handling chicken their UTIs resolved.
 Apologies if all the above seems silly but hopefully it is a least food for thought.

Wishing you well.

K.

[Ann B]

Thanks Kathleen

Funny you should mention the flaxseeds.  I just commenced one tablespoon of ground flaxseeds in my muesli three days ago!  I haven't noticed any benefit yet, but it is early days.

I was aware of flaxseed benefits a few years ago but postponed trying them because there have been a few reports that being a phytoestrogen that is similar to human oestrogen, could possibly be an issue for those who have had BC as I have.

Since I was advised to discontinue magnesium powder I thought I might give them a try.

It is also funny that I have just finished preparing a chicken curry.  I will have to look into that.  I know that American chicken may be full of ABs etc, but are US women experiencing significantly more UTIs than we in the UK?

Do you have a ref?

Ann B

[Ann B]

The urine p.h. story continues.

The gyno/uro I saw suggested I discontinue magnesium oxide powder for my constipation because he believed it was creating a beneficial alkalised environment for UTI.  I am not absolutely convinced that is the case, and is something I am still investigating ie whether a high, low, or neutral p.h. is best for the bladder and urinary system.  The vagina may even require a different p.h. from the urinary system. 

As I find the magnesium powder the most beneficial as well as healthful solution to my chronic constipation, I am reluctant to discontinue it.  The constipation regime he suggested is quite brutal, particularly on a long-term basis.  Instead, I am exploring how to counter the magnesium's alkalising effects.  For the past few evenings I have been taking 500 mgs of vit C about 30 minutes ahead of the magnesium powder.  Thus far I have noticed following a morning urine dipstick test that my urine is less alkaline ie around 7.5 rather than what it has been 100% at the extreme alkaline end ie 8.5.  This has been the case 3 days in a row.  I will keep monitoring to determine if this will remain consistent.

Having said all the above, I am aware that GPs dismiss the accuracy and benefit of dip stick testing in mature ladies, despite the fact that they will still use them as a precursor to sending a urine sample for analysis.

[Kathleen]

Hello again Ann B


I don't have any references for you unfortunately but you can find them by looking on Dr Michael Greger's YouTube site, NutritionFacts.org.

I believe that the phytoestrogens in plants are helpful  because they have a hormonal modulating effective. This may be true for flaxseed and BC and I think the same process applies for men with prostate cancer.  I do know however that soybeans are safe for BC patients to consume even though these beans contain a very high amount of phytoestrogens.

The study on chickens and UTIs is explained in one of the videos. Apparently doctors had  found a particular strain of chicken e coli in the women's urine and this led them to conduct their research.

I hope this helps you in some way and please let us know how you get on.

Wishing you well.

K.

[Ann B]

Hi Kathleen

Thanks for the info.  An interesting website.

I just had a quick scan as it seems quite complex.  However, there are numerous references to follow up on the chicken and UTI link.

I don't know if there is a substantial difference between the factory rearing of UK and US chicken, but in the US, antibiotics seem to play a big part, thus leading to possible bacterial resistance.

As the saying goes 'we are what we eat'. 

I have always known that chicken and eggs are sources of food poisoning etc, but so are many of our foods these days.

Perhaps vegetarianism is the answer, but how uncontaminated are our fruit and vegetables which are treated with pesticides and herbicides, and derived from worldwide sources?

Food for thought!

[Kathleen]

Hello again Ann B

I am pleased that you found Dr Greger's site useful.

I take your point about food production and when I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease thirteen years ago I changed my diet which I believe has helped me. I am now vegan/ vegetarian so I don't have to worry about anything nasty in meat lol.

As I understand it the antibiotics given to animals is not to treat disease or keep them healthy it is just to keep them alive long enough for them to reach slaughter weight. As you say there is also the problem of bacterial resistance.

I realise farmers also spread chemicals onto crops which is a worry but fortunately plants don't contain the pathogens that animals do.

If you do experiment with your diet and see an   improvement in your UTIs please let us know.
I have never had a UTI ( famous last words lol) but if I did I would be willing to try all sorts of treatments to eradicate them. One friend of mine has been told that she just has to try and manage her frequent episodes as the last course of ABs was for three months and still didn't help her. Btw I told her about the chicken study but she wasn't impressed so she didn't try it. She was with Slimming World at the time and apparently chicken is a 'free' food so she was eating a lot of it lol.

Wishing you well and take care.

K.

[Ann B]

Thanks Kathleen

You are fortunate never to have had a UTI - Prevention is better than cure!  Perhaps your vegetarian diet helps - all the possible phytoestrogens?

I am quite omnivorous, but I think I will look into changing my diet a bit.  The problem is that over the years we have moved from less red meat to chicken as an alternative.

I will have to discuss it with my O.H.

We are taking more probiotics both pills, yoghurt and kefir

Thanks again

Ann

[VioletAquarius]

Hi
To help prevent uti have a look at d-mannose,