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[meno-mel]

This is weird and I feel obliged to tell you guys simply because every time I'm on this forum, I say how much I hate progesterone, passionately like it's the devil's poop. Now I might find a way through those 12 days a month.

Past failures were;
Every type of BCP including POPs
mirena coil
northisterone
provera (10mg then 5mg)
oral utrogestan (200 mg then 100 mg)
vaginal utrogestan (200mg)

Every one of those made me seriously suicidal.

For two years I've tried HRT, clonidine, gabapentin, prozac, duloxetine and all manner of herbals.

The most successful was Black Cohosh from H&B. Certainly not HRT, not yet, I guess hrt's more complicated than black cohosh or tibolone.

I'd like a simple solution, but they won't allow me tibolone bcause I'm not far enough along into menopause, I'm 53, that's too young (and after 60 is too old).

After putting it off another week, I took the plunge and tried 100mg utrogestan vaginally every morning.

At first insomnia, then increased sweats, especially at night.
That's all having done six of the twelve progesterone days! I do not feel depressed!!!!

I'm so excited. I've had success at last!

Vaginally 200mg was just as bad, couldn't cope with it at all. 100mg is allowed vaginally by some doctors, so even though my own doctors haven't told me I can or can't (I asked three times, they don't phone me back) I think on balance even if they eventually tell me I have to take the suicidal dose, I won't do it, they have no idea the toll it takes on me and my marriage.

I just need an oestrogen now, any suggestions about what might work for me? I have a genetic skin disorder which I had expected to mean I'd get more absorption through the skin as it's thinner, but it seems the opposite might be true, I should have felt SOMETHING other than awful through all of this.

I'm stupid, Black Cohosh isn't in my pill pack, that means for two days I've not had it. Hence the night sweats, makes sense, but I've more, took two to catch up

It seems wrong I'm relying on Black Cohosh while under both the GP and the NHS HRT clinic.

[Hurdity]

Hi Menomel - I am glad you are feeling better for the time being - long may it last. However I wouldn't be taking Black Cohosh over any long period of time, but better to be using some sort of bioidentical oestrogen as you suggest you would like.

I have only ever used patches except for a brief period of time for a few months when I tried gel because many on the forum said how wonderful it was - but for me it wasn't. By that I mean Imy flushes came back and I wasn;t prepared to spend months trying to tweak it when I knew that patches worked.

For years I took Estradot but then a few years ago when the shortages started I was given Estradem (don't = like a huge plastic bag taped to your butt) and then Elleste solo patch (think that was it) and finally Evorel. Personally I actually prefer Evorel though had the Estradot not been scarce I would have continued with that. I find in the heat Estradot tends to move around a but - maybe the glue is a bit more sensitive to high temps. Evorel is larger but not too large, and if you have a skin condition and need to absorb more then it is a larger patch = greater contact with the skin.

There is also the Lenzetto spray but I have no experience of that nor do I know who well it would be absorbed eg on your skin - if you need more?

Are you post menopausal? If so it's also not a good idea to take progesterone on its own for a long period of time, especially at that dose, without oestrogen, as this can cause the endometrium (womb lining) to gett too thin, and sometimes ulcerate, leading to bleeding. Using it vaginaly you may well be getting quite a high dose direct to the womb. Black Cohosh is not actully oestrogen and won't prevent the action of progesterone on the womb lining, as far as I know.

Hope this helps

Hurdity x

PS I hate progesterone too. This month hasn't been too bad so far ie no migrane (fingers crossed) but so so tired and exhaustion in the mornings, lack of energy etc....

[discogirl]

Hi meno-mel

Im really pleased for you so nice to hear happy news.

When i used utro i used it vaginally in the mornings but as i also use the gel mornings i was gettimg horrendous feelings of dread.

Keep in touch and let us know you get on xxx

[meno-mel]

Thanks Hurdity and discogirl, I'm really hopeful.
I get a scan in August, they scheduled it to be on day 11 of progesterone and right at the start of my period, seems like a good time to measure the lining, should be at it's max then, so if it's ok then I know 100mg vaginally is doing its job.

I'm on Estradot 50 now, Evorel 50 did absolutely nothing detectable for me at all (had a 15 week try out) but I think Estradot is beginning to help. I noticed hot sweats and cold shivers have both reduced, night sweats were awful a week ago, not happening now!

If Estradot is working then I'll consider cutting down the black cohosh. I take it four months at a time then have a break. It takes a week to build up to effective levels in your body, but after that it's great.

[discogirl]

Hi meno-mel,

Regarding cyclogest pessaries, whilst they're not licenced to be used for hrt (neither is utrogestan vaginally in the UK) the cyclogest as are the utrogestan 200mg capsules are used in fertility treatement. But all the cyclogest is, is bio identicial progesterone.

They are wax pessaries, and I'm sure Hurdity won't mind me saying this but she used them as part of her hrt regime many years ago before utrogestan came on the market.

This is a quote regarding how the cyclogest pessaries are absorped rectally or vaginally:

"Cyclogest pessaries can be inserted either into the vagina or rectum (bottom). In both cases, the pessaries melt and the progesterone from the pessaries is absorbed into the bloodstream via the the rich supply of blood vessels in these areas"

Hope it helps xxx