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[joziel]

Thanks Gnatty. Are you not worried you will get it over your veins where they take blood from, and so affect blood test results?

[Gnatty]

I am not too worried about blood tests at the moment. I am the best I have been since my hysterectomy and have reduced my dose down to three pumps am and then just half a one at night time. I was on five pumps to start with. So I don't have any ovaries so therefore shouldn't be any fluctuations in principle! But if I did need a blood test I'm pretty sure the gel when I rub it in doesn't go all the way up to my inner elbow where they take the blood from

[Ermin2trude]

Hi Joziel,

Have you ever discussed histamine intolerance with Newson Health? The symptoms you describe are suspiciously similar to my own (which also started when I began HRT). I was diagnosed with Histamine intolerance by Newson Health and after following a strict diet for a couple of months, my symptoms have gone.

Ermin

[joziel]

Yes, have explored that one. Even followed a low histamine diet for 2 weeks and took DAO supplements and all the rest of it and researched all Tina Peer's stuff. None of it helped.

[Scampidoodle]

I was just going to say the same re histamine and mast cells. Same symptoms for me began on oestrogel a few years ago. And obviously the clinic I saw kept raising it and wham. Also didn’t improve on coming off. I needed antihistamines and mast cell stabilisers as diet did nothing to help me. I also always have low blood levels on tests- you’d think I was post menopausal but my genetics which were tested, show my body hangs onto oestrogen and it gets backed up and not detoxified causing histamine issues.

Might not be but just for added info.

[Katherine]

Joziel I’ve been using 3 pumps of gel recently and I just put it all over both thighs. I tried using it on my arms but I find the smell too strong so prefer it further away from my nose!

[joziel]

Scampi, what were your symptoms? I don’t have any itchiness or rashes or allergies or congestion and no GI issues either. I’ve always been fine during the day and then all this stuff happens at night. Are you back on estrogen now?

I tried DAO, all the supplements recommended by Dr Tina Peers (watched videos by her on YouTube), antihistamines a few times and a low histamine diet as well and there wasn’t any change in symptoms at all. I was really strict with the diet using an app and not eating leftovers etc. It was miserable as I only ate foods scoring 0 on the app which was v restrictive - and it made zero difference. My Newson dr did bring it up as an idea but we both felt I don’t quite fit it.

Since starting this thread I increased gel to 2 pumps and no worsening of symptoms either. In fact they seem slightly better although it’s a bit intermittent at the moment with a couple good nights and then a bad one. But even on the bad nights the symptoms are much reduced. I just have insomnia. But I think the insomnia will be the last thing to go. Anyway I’m now on 2 pumps for 6wks…

Katherine that’s good to know. I plan to do similar and just apply more round the back of my thighs. I’d rather keep it off my arms so it doesn’t affect blood results or get anywhere near my boobs and so I can wear a T shirt whilst it all dries!!

[Katherine]

Hi Joziel, yes that's another advantage to applying to the thighs, when it's cold you can wear a top while it dries!! I do find it does leave a bit of residue on the loo seat so I am careful to clean it before my partner visits just to ensure he doesn't grow any boobs! 

[Scampidoodle]

Hi Joziel, I have never had allergies either and don’t have any rashes or itchiness etc. no classic ‘histamine’ symptoms. Mine manifested with hot flushes, anxiety, jittery shaky feelings, palpitations, depression, insomnia. I was seeing someone at hormone health at Nick Panays clinic and they kept putting my estrogel up as suspected perimenopause and tried to get me up to 4 pumps to override my cycle. I got to 2, felt awful, put me up to 3 and it raised my histamine so high that my mast cells set off. Hormone health didn’t think it was histamine intolerance but after lots of research myself I figured it out and saw tina peers who diagnosed. I’m on H1 and H2 antihistamines and ketotifen which is a mast cell stabiliser. I have to say diet alone would not have helped me. I was progressing but then got covid on Dec and it’s set things off again.

Having my genes mapped through Dr Peers has helped me understand why I have these issues. And it takes time for the mast cells to replace themselves.

If you’re raising estrogen and it’s going ok that’s great but if things start to get worse then might be something to explore further.

I’m certainly getting palpitations and racing heart a lot at the moment.

Basically all my symptoms would point to me needing more estrogen but through testing and Dutch tests etc I don’t need estrogen. Despite low results in blood tests it gets backed up in my system. Often women find benefit from progesterone to oppose the histamine inducing estrogen.

[joziel]

Very interesting Scampi. So basically, looking at those symptoms, they are the exact same as meno symptoms anyway? So the only diagnosable thing is that, as you increased estrogen, things got worse?

Did you try both patches and gel? And what were you estrogen blood results? Are symptoms better now you are on the antihistamines and ketotifen? What dose of estrogen are you on, can you take any? Sorry for all the questions.

For me, I stopped desogestrel and started all 3 HRT hormones at the same time a year ago. Then I increased from 25mcg patch to 50 after just 2 weeks at 25. (Newson dr, who I've since switched from gave that advice!). My ovaries ached constantly and fired out these electric stabby pains into my hips, waking up after 10 years on desogestrel. So I feel like my own body had estrogen production going all over the place, combined with the HRT estrogen. So that's my theory as to what caused all of this back then (insomnia, heart beating hard at night and inner tremors). (Stupid doctor question of the time was "But how do you KNOW it's your ovaries?", said in a v sceptical way. Er..... because I know where my ovaries are and what they feel like!? Honestly, that was a female GP as well. Does she not feel her own ovaries hurt at ovulation or sometime or other?!)

Anyway, I don't know why it didn't all stop again when I stopped everything for 5 months - but at least it gave my own ovaries a chance to settle down. Then I began a very low dose patch (12.5) and increased gradually up to 50mcg and then 62.5 - and this time round all those increases made pretty much zero difference in terms of the symptoms and I still had other low estrogen symptoms like migraines at start and end of cycle and vaginal dryness. It was like the patches just weren't doing anything much, that time round.

After I switched to gel, I experienced an improvement after 3 nights on just 1 pump - 1 pump of gel was better for it all than 62.5 patches. And I'm now on 2 pumps and it's still okay/improved. I am still not getting perfect sleep and still don't have zero of these symptoms but I've not even been on 2 pumps for a week yet so it's early days. (However I do think these symptoms are quick to respond, compared to other things like joint pain etc with more processes involved. I notice a difference from 3-7 days after a dose change.)

I am v nervous about increasing gel dose after what happened when I tried to increase patches last year though, but I have to at least try...