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[joziel]

I've recently switched from Estrodot patches to gel. (Long story which I may regale you with in future as I might need help there..... ) I'm peri, 45yo, and on sequential utrogestan and testosterone as well.

I'm currently on just one pump of gel but will need to increase, possibly to 3-4 pumps.... I'm worried I'm going to run out of body parts to apply the gel(!!) and want to ask other women where they are putting it!? (Especially if they use 3-4 pumps.)

I'm with the Newson clinic and they've told me it's one pump per body part. So, one pump on one inner thigh. Second pump on other inner thigh. Third/fourth pumps on outer arms.... All well and good, except I'm pretty slim and my arms are small and I can't imagine getting one pump of gel to stay on my outer arms and not inner..... and I don't want to get it on my boobs!

I'm also thinking it's going to be pretty cold in winter when I put gel on both thighs and both arms and then stand around freezing and waiting for it to dry 

Yet apparently the gel doesn't absorb well if we apply it over itself? Is there some way I can get 2 pumps on each thigh? By applying it over more of the circumference of my thigh?!?! 

[sheila99]

I've changed to a patch now but I was on 4 pumps gel and applied one pump to each inner thigh night and morning. I had the same problem with insufficient skin on arms/shoulders but the main reason was standing around in the cold. At night I got straight into bed and just held the covers off my legs until it dried. I find a patch is so much easier.

[joziel]

Thanks sheila99. So you divided the dose between AM and PM but reapplied to the same area? I just don't know if the dried residue from the AM would stop absorption in the PM?!

Patches are definitely easier in some ways but I find it easier to put something on every day then to remember specific days of the week to change patches and I was constantly checking my patch to be sure it was still stuck on every time I went to the loo and I like just forgetting everything after the gel is on.

But the real reason for swapping was some really horrific side effects I've been having since I started HRT last year. (Heart beating hard and faster than usual at night, inner tremors and shakiness which is worse at night, fizzing and buzzing calves and feet and hands - and as a result of all that, not much sleep. Which is the worst part of it all, the lack of sleep.)

I had bloods tested a couple of weeks ago on Day 2 of my cycle when I was on a 50mcg patch (there wouldn't be much estrogen coming from me, on Day 2 - I still have v regular cycles - so we can assume it is all/most from the patch) and it was only 198pmol. So it looks like that was all I was getting from a 50mcg patch.

Rather than just increasing the patch, because my symptoms are so horrendous I switched to the gel as well as knowing I have to get the estrogen higher. Just in case that made a difference. Some doctors say it should make no difference because it's the same active ingredient but I've heard of women doing much better on one than the other. The Newson nurse said to start back at one pump of gel rather than trying to equal the 50 patch with 2 pumps, so I did that...

The weird thing is that I know I was absorbing patches last year when I first started HRT. Has anyone else been able to absorb from patches and then for some reason just stopped absorbing from them!?

[discogirl]

hi joziel

im on 3 pumps of gel a day. patches didnt suit me either.

Besins PIL states that if on 3 or 4 pumps per day to apply 2 to one arm or thigh and the other pump to the other arm or thigh depending on which body parts you use.

it also states to apply it once a day either morning or evening. i apply my 3 pumps morning as i would find evening application too stimulating. i did read something about the reason for applying it once a day,  i will try and find it and post it.

having said all of that some women who are on more than 2 pumps per day do split their dose and it works fine for them. obviously Besins dont give any information for more than 4 pumps per day as that is off licence xx

[joziel]

Thx discogirl. Whilst I've been using Testogel for a while, that is a micro amount of gel compared to the Oestrogel stuff   

I am already very gelled up just on one pump and my Testogel     . Where are you putting your 3 then?  And what is your story with the patches? I'm just looking for some hope that I might finally be on the right path with all this...

[discogirl]

hi joziel

well i just dont think i absorb the estrogen from the patches very well. ive tried twice lately estradot but i just prefer the gel. i like the idea of applying it every day and it seems to work so i dont mind the inconvenience of it drying. also altering the dose is easier.

i apply two pumps to one arm and the other pump to my other arm. i do however rotate the arm that i put two gels on. so one day my left arm gets the two pumps and the next day my right arm. i have tried applying the gel to my thighs but i dont seem to absorb very well on my thighs
 it really is trial and error as what can work for me may not with you.

whatever you choose i do hope you get sorted as our meno paths can be a rocky one at times xxx

[Tynkabelle]

I have to use Oestrogel -  4 pumps daily (+Utrogestan tablet)

I use the 4 pumps across both thighs each morning - 2 inside and 2 outside of the thighs and any residual on my hands
 is rubbed into my upper arm area.  Seem to be ok for me as I have noticed my flushes have stopped - ok I am only on the 2nd month of using these from having to change from another HRT.

Whatever works best for you I guess - by the looks of the comments you can experiment 👍

[joziel]

Tynkabelle, that is great to hear because that's what I'd like to do as well (put it all on my thighs). I just didn't know if that would work. Phew, 4 pumps is a lot of gel.

Why did you have to swap from another HRT? Did the patches not work for you either?

[sheila99]

I found estradot stronger than gel but I guess it just depends on how well we absorb from each product (and perhaps because I only washed it off once a day). As long as it doesn't go anywhere near your breasts I think you can you pretty much do as you please, the important thing is that you do the same each day so you get a consistent dose. It might be worth keeping a diary of your cycle and symptoms as it's possible they're from too much oestrogen but then that isn't consistent with the low reading. As your cycles are regular perhaps you're producing a lot of oestrogen yourself later in the cycle.

[joziel]

My symptoms are pretty much exactly the same, every single day and week and month.

I've never had a very high estrogen blood result. A previous result on a 50mcg patch was 233pmol and on another occasion with a 37.5 patch, it was 433pmol (so my body was contributing something there). However, because my symptoms are not really changing with the changing estrogen levels, it's thought that they are due to fluctuations rather than simply low estrogen and that giving me a pretty high dose during peri will override the fluctuations from my own body.

Last year - when I first began HRT - is when these symptoms started. These weren't part of my low pre-HRT symptoms - they were caused by starting HRT. I was fine for 2 weeks on a 25mcg patch but I'd been told to increase to 50mcg then (by a bit of a gung-ho Newson doctor). After one week at 50mcg, is when all this chaos started. I thought it was just that I needed time to settle down so stayed at 50 for 3 months. Then I was told to increase to 75mcg.

So I did, and after 1 week at 75mcg, I spent the night awake the entire night with heart palps and jitters and tremors, and then went to A&E in the morning! There was a clear correlation between increasing the dose and worsening of the symptoms. ECG was normal. After that, I reduced the estrogen - and reduced it -and reduced it - but the symptoms continued. So I stopped all HRT for 5 months, thinking this would stop everything for a reset....

The 'force' went out of the symptoms (instead of feeling like the bed was moving under me with the tremors, they were much lighter and within my body) but the symptoms didn't stop. By this point I was getting desperate because nothing I did seemed to make any difference. After 5 months I couldn't hack the low estrogen symptoms coming back, so I restarted the patches beginning on 12.5 and being very very gradual about increasing. However, the symptoms just continued. This time they didn't get worse with any increases (which was weird, considering what happened last time) but they also didn't stop. I also got some VA symptoms back again, which I hadn't had before. So I just didn't seem to be getting much estrogen from the patches this second time round. (Weird.)

After I got back to a 50mcg patch is when I had this last blood test done. Since I've been on patches the whole time, one theory is I just don't tolerate them. Another is that I need more estrogen (which is weird considering more estrogen resulted in chaos last year). And a third theory is it's due to fluctuations and I need higher estrogen to override those.

It's all a bit of a weird one. Last night I - record-breakingly - slept from 12.30am till 6.30am, which is the longest I've slept in ages. That was on day 3 of the gel (just one pump). So maybe it was the patches.... (curious if anyone else experienced anything like this)...

[discogirl]

hi joziel

well i know when i increased my gel to 4 pumps my boobs were sore hot and huge but i also felt jittery and wired this stopped when i reduced back to 3 pumps xxx

[joziel]

thx, yeah I know too much estrogen can cause those effects but I've had these symptoms both with 75 patch and on zero estrogen at all (for 5 months) and my blood results have never been 'high', which is why I think it is fluctuations or something. I've spent so many hours puzzling over this and trying to work it out logically 

[discogirl]

its so difficult isnt it, especially when your own hormones are joining in the party as well xx

[Dotty]

I use 4 pumps of gel…2 on each inner thigh or outer arms every morning.

The leaflet in the Oestrogel box advises it to be used that way.

[Gnatty]

I apply three in the morning. I put my bra on first and say a t shirt, then I apply one pump to each inner thigh and because I have skinny arms I apply one pump to my inner arm from wrist to elbow and rub it between both inner arms but no higher than elbow. I could apply this extra pump between my thighs but I do feel I get very good absorption on those inner arms where I guess the skin hasn't been subject to so much sun.