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[vintagefiend]

Hi ladies,

I realise it's protocol that oestradiol levels are "reasonable" before adding in testosterone therapy.

But, I'm wondering whether anyone's heard of docs giving testosterone even when oestradiol levels are low (but feel ok for the woman) or when the woman isn't taking any other hrt at all and levels are non-existent.

I know that the body will convert T to oestradiol if it needs it but I don't know how much is converted to E versus that which stays at T! does it vary from woman to woman depending on other factors (like so much of all this!!)

What if I'm ok physically on a very low level of oestrogen? would that preclude me from having T for, say, libido?

thanks for any input 

[Nas]

Excellent question!
I’ve wondered the exact same. Largely because I’m not having a great time on oestrogen, but would like to give testosterone a crack on its own.

The general protocol i think as you say, optimise oestrogen first, then add in T for libido.

No clue how much gets converted to O though and whether the benefits would be felt.

I’ve just seen a post on a FB group page re: taking CBD for menopause. Anyway she can’t use O any longer, but has been using T for a couple of weeks. She reckons her energy and sleep are improved.

If you are already on O, but no libido, then you should be able to get T prescribed ( not sure if on the NHS though?).

😊

[vintagefiend]

Hi Nas

thanks for response
I am having exactly the same issues as you with oestrogen- I feel crap on a tiny amount and coming off it is actually a respite for my mood and foggy head but then I start aching a bit and worrying about bones and so go back on and feel sooo shabby!
but i'm on a minuscule amount- my bloods oestradiol only 90 but i cant bear any more! my T on the floor too
so I wondered whether i could theoretically look after bones and mood with T alone, especially given that some of it would prob convert to E anyway- just wonder if this is an area that's been explored at all
there was someone on here who took only testosterone- don't think her doc was aware though- worked really well for her.
it's not actually for libido that i want it - though i am lacking in that area! i just thought that might be the best way to ask a doctor for it- otherwise they'd prob suggest more oestrogen hrt
i'd want it for energy, mood, bones, skin all that if poss.
when i googled very quickly it looks like there's some evidence of it being a good thing but generally docs don't like to.
so  wondered if there are any maverick docs who'd give it a whirl!
i'll let you know if i find anything out

[vintagefiend]

Hi poppytoast,

thank you so much for the reply
I really hope you're allowed the tibolone very soon- sounds like it was perfect.
it's certainly food for thought-in fact i was honestly thinking about it earlier this morning after another shabby night.

can a GP initiate a prescription of tibolone?

the thing is i have been on it before but very briefly
it was years ago when i had a chemical menopause/zoladex and all i remember is losing my sh*t and throwing a lamp across the room!!
i'd been on it maybe a couple of days.
but i don't know for certain it was the tibolone that caused that or if it was the chemical meno- i certainly continued to feel awful after stopping the tibolone- though perhaps less ragey- and didn't proceed further with chemical meno (though you have to wait for pellet to run out which is fun!)

like you i can't bear progesterone so it is def interesting that the prog in tibolone didn't affect you badly.

Just to confuse the issue, i have now had my ovaries and womb removed - kind of regret the former but hey-ho
so i dont officially need prog but dont understand why i feel so rubbish on oestrogen alone
maybe the prog making qualities of tibolone would know how much to make?? maybe i need some??

i'm not averse to trying anything including the creams you can buy online but so far nothing's worked for me- though those creams definitely have potency so i may try again and it's so much easier than getting an appt with the GP. that's the other thing that puts me off- the back and forth to doctors who don't necessarily know much

i think with ovary removal testosterone is particularly affected and certainly mine is basically zero (0.0something!) but i think this happens with normal meno too- just more slowly-so i dont feel my position is unique

all sounds quite arbitrary with the having to be 54 to take tibolone- bet you can't wait for that birthday

cheers, Vintage x
thank you for the comments on weight- you're right, it's perfectly reasonable to expect to be overweight if eating more and sedentary. it must be very difficult tackling weight from the other side.

one thing (over)weight does is lower shbg which in turn means that topical testosterone runs wild in the body and not in a good way! i do wonder if tibolone is intelligent enough to figure out how much a woman needs based on all the variables inside her body- brilliant if it is!

thanks again, poppy x

[HellsBells]

BHRT practitioners will give testosterone from the start. I questioned this but there was no issue. I didn’t ask why as I was in such a state after my osteoporosis diagnosis. I imagine that while you are getting your levels up it doesn’t matter if the testosterone converts. Can’t think why otherwise. I assume there are no risks to it or they wouldn’t prescribe. Particularly as private practitioners are open to more legal remedies if things go wrong. They would be more cautious than less.

[sheila99]

I'm not aware of T being dangerous on it's own at normal levels. Not prescribing it until oestrogen is optimal may be more to do with not being able to tell what is causing what rather than being a safety issue. Probably easier to get privately.
I don't think being prescribed tibolone is a problem as long as you're post meno and might be worth trying.
Have you tried different forms of oestrogen? Just in case it's something in the carrier that's making you feel bad.

[vintagefiend]

HellsBells:
thank you- that's great to know- in fact you've reminded that there's a bhrt practitioner/genuine doctor! up the road from me. I didnt realise they could also prescribe testosterone- got into my head that they just did oestrogen and prog- maybe i should see her- at least she'll be understanding of my situation.

sheila99:
thank you- did not realise that about the reason t not prescribed at same time as oestrogen. well, i certainly know that i dont like oestrogen hrt so hopefully there won't be any difficulty getting T.
I'm genuinely very interested in tibolone- i'm def post meno- in fact i'm post ovary-removal so good to know it shouldnt be a problem. I'm a bit scared of it to be honest but then it sounds like it's so different to anything else that i think i have to give it a proper go- i'm scared of being over-run with hormones but maybe that's not how it works.
i've tried other forms of oestrogen so i can rule out the carrier x

[vintagefiend]

HellsBells

also meant to say that i hope you're ok regarding the osteoporosis and that whatever you're taking is helping now- that must have been a shock-
sending positive vibes x

[vintagefiend]

thank you Poppy,

certainly hear you re the progesterone!
i can't tolerate oestrogen- makes me depressed- just removed my tiny patch as mood so black
but, maybe just maybe tibolone will be different x