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[MrsMitch]

Groan 
I just wanted to let you know I've emailed Dr Currie and have now had my reply. Whilst there was lots of helpful information in her reply, for which I'm very grateful,  I'm left feeling even more naffed off!! NOT with her BTW but my symptoms.
She did tell me that I could use the pessaries for VA off licence 5 times a week which tbh I can tell now I definitely need. She also suggested I ask the GP if I could try HRT in a tablet form and not cyclical but taking progesterone continuously as she says my periods would have naturally finished by now.
I do agree because I haven't had a natural bleed for over a year now and only 2 caused by the HRT.
But it's the sleep thing. I was so hoping she'd have a great suggestion and bingo, there would be my path to sleep. But alas, no. She sent me a link to the fact sheet about sleep disturbance during menopause and it honestly looks like there's nothing can be done.
Reading through it, I'm really strict with my sleep routine already, get tons of exercise, eat healthily - in fact I've just lost a stone of menopausal podge!! I don't have sleep apnea.  I feel really down that there seems to be nothing I can do particularly as the progestogen tablets don't make me sleep any better. Now it's getting lighter in the morning, in spite of blackout curtains, I'm waking and staying awake even earlier too on top of contact waking throughout the night.
Sorry ladies im moaning again, I was just really hoping there'd be something I could do.
I've even tried diazepam and Amitriptyline which I had in the cupboard from a while ago, neither made any difference,  I still kept waking up as normal.
Does anyone have any suggestions where I should go next? I don't think I can keep going with this level of exhaustion anymore. We had 7 of my husbands grandchildren here on Saturday and yesterday I was so exhausted it was all I could do to try to tidy up. Yet I still didn't sleep any better last night. I'm getting desperate now.

[CLKD]

The body and brain can be too tired to sleep.  Or with all that noise yesterday, the brain continued to be wired! 

Could you contact a sleep clinic for advice?   When U wake, how do you feel?  Due to busy dreams I rarely feel rested when I wake, sometimes dopey all day  - if I get good quality sleep I know the difference.

Do U have to wake with an alarm = the brain continuing to be alert.

We often concentrate too much on getting 'good sleep' which keeps the brain active.  In the 1990s when in a busy job I would wake to see whether I had been asleep    .   Worrying about it means that the brain keeps wittering as to ..........

R U able to sleep at other times?  I know the so-called experts say not to, but when my body/brain need sleep, I don't have much choice!  It doesn't stop me sleeping at night .  I have less waking nights now, fortunately. 

[Dotty]

Hi what hrt are you taking ?

The right level of oestrogen does help with sleep. I had horrific insomnia which has now gone since bring on the right dosage of oestrogen.

[MrsMitch]

CLKD: hello again, I don't worry about not getting sleep, never fret and don't have to set an alarm as I always wake naturally. I can go to sleep as soon as my head hits the pillow, it's just that I can't stay asleep. 
Dotty: I'm on 3 pumps of Oestragel and progestogen 14 days every 28.
I did speak to my GP yesterday and she says I could be on progesterone continuously now and cannot increase my Oestragel to 4 pumps until the end of April as I need to be on it 3 months at the increased dose I've gone up to. She said that sleeping tablets won't help keep me asleep and I agree there's no point to them. I mentioned Dr Currie had said oestrogen pessaries can be used 5x a week if needed and she refused to prescribe that amount!! I told her it was only because I did a loading dose for 3 or more weeks when 1st starting that cleared things up. That didn't make her happy. I'm having to ask her if she actually knows how little oestrogen is in them and how low a risk they pose! She basically had zero suggestions which I find unbelievable. She said I'll have to wait until I see the menopause clinic and I had to tell her they are unable to even offer me an appointment for over 12 months.
So I told her she needs to understand that it's about quality of life and I'm now quite well read on the whole subject of HRT and it's potential risks. She wasn't impressed.
So one question dear ladies....I'm beginning to wonder if my sleep is actually worse on the week's I take progestogen tablets. After keeping a diary, I'm starting to see a pattern, I think. Can that be making things worse or would it be a coincidence?

[sheila99]

Utrogeston used vaginally makes my sleep worse. If you find you're worse on it you could try a 6 week cycle instead of 4 to give you more time off it. If you've recently increased to 3 pumps gel I agree you should try it for 3 months, in my experience it takes that long to work. If it's utro do you take it vaginally or orally? Might be worth trialling the other way.

[HellsBells]

Have you tried melatonin?

[MrsMitch]

I take the utrogestan orally as I'm using oestrogen pessaries.
I haven't trued melatonin, doesn't that have to be prescribed? I have a friend who has an adult daughter who is severely mentally disabled who she cares for full time. Her GP will only let her have melatonin very occasionally to help her daughter sleep when she's exhausted herself. GP apparently told her they don't like to prescribe it. Makes me really wonder if they actually ever prescribe anything of use. But I will ask the question, thank you.

[scrubdub]

You can buy melatonin from the Internet. I buy mine from Bioneva-

[MrsMitch]

Thank you, Srubdub, I'll take a look a give some a try. Happy to try anything that might work.

[bluebellstar]

Hi MrsMitch

I’m not pushing ADs, but noticed you’d tried Amitriptyline in the past. I had chronic insomnia which progressed to getting to sleep but waking at 3am tk not being able to go van to sleep and was prescribed Mirtazepine. I slept like a log. Every single night for 6 months on it. I’d had a health condition and it have my body change to repair. I tapered off and yes rebound insomnia which is settling but I’m seriously considering going back on it as I, too, can’t cope with the early waking, especially as we move to spring and summer.
I did get some vivid dreams but no other side effects other than feeling a bit groggy in the am which a cup of coffee sorted. I felt calm and relaxed.
It’s so hard when sleep deprived.
I’m debating these options myself. I have tried melatonin bought in line and used it to great success when peri but it doesn’t now work for me.
That’s worth a try though! X

[MrsMitch]

Thank you Bluebellstar, this is what is wonderful about thus forum - all the real life experiences of us all. The suggestions ladies make may work for some not for others but at least there us far more experience than the doctors.
I hope you manage to get your sleep back in shape. I agree, as spring comes along, it dies seem to affect those of us who already have poor sleep. I love the lighter evenings but dread the lighter mornings although if I do just decide to get up at 4.30 I can get out for a walk with the dog or Potter in the garden.
Thank you for the tip.

[bluebellstar]

That sounds like a great plan! This is one good thing about dogs and early morning sunshine 🤗! Hope you get your sleep back, too! It’s tough without it xx

[HellsBells]

I got my melatonin on prescription but they only give it to you if you're over 55 and only a maximum of 9 weeks worth at a time. Daft.