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[Hurdity]

Hi discogirl

Sorry to hear about all of this. The tired but wired to me sounds like a side effect of the progesterone - oestrogen does not make women feel tired - it is our energising feel-good hormone! Progesterone, as said, has a sedative effect which in many women leads to head fog and fatigue. I mentioned on another thread I think vaginal utrogestan, as I have always taken it, gives me vivid dreams, interrupted sleep and bladder irritation - so I have to get up in the night and then can't get back to sleep, and leads to "tired but wired". For me those are the downsides though I have put up with it for 12 years!!! May be different for you of course...

Good advice from Gnatty to try it orally and see how you feel - as this may stop the bladder irritation - but you may find even more side effects from the metabolic by-products. On another thread someone has also suggested taking utrogestan at a different time of day if sleep quality at night is affected, but as you say one thing at a time.

You'll get there eventually!

All the best
Hurdity x

[Katherine]

Hi discogirl, I think I might have said this before, but I think it could be really important for you right now. If I don’t take utrogestan (orally) I literally lie there in bed with my eyes wide open, I take it and I’m asleep within half an hour. If you tried it for a few days and didn’t like it it would be out of your system within a few days anyway. It’s up to you but I really think it would help you. In my experience once you have been in hrt for a while, any changes you make can be quickly reversed, so you can try something and correct it quickly if necessary. I really hope you feel better soon and will be thinking of you. Xxx

Ps- in my experience oestrogen is the energising hormone but can keep you awake if you take it at night, utrogestan makes me sleep deep and wake refreshed, UNLESS I take too much, by missing my 3 day break or taking too close to food or with magnesium, in which case it keeps me awake. It is possible the utro could interact with your amitryptiline but you could try it unless it’s contraindicated. Utro taken orally can be bloomin amazing if you get it right, which I’ve done with trial and error.

[discogirl]

Hi discogirl

Sorry to hear about all of this. The tired but wired to me sounds like a side effect of the progesterone - oestrogen does not make women feel tired - it is our energising feel-good hormone! Progesterone, as said, has a sedative effect which in many women leads to head fog and fatigue. I mentioned on another thread I think vaginal utrogestan, as I have always taken it, gives me vivid dreams, interrupted sleep and bladder irritation - so I have to get up in the night and then can't get back to sleep, and leads to "tired but wired". For me those are the downsides though I have put up with it for 12 years!!! May be different for you of course...

Good advice from Gnatty to try it orally and see how you feel - as this may stop the bladder irritation - but you may find even more side effects from the metabolic by-products. On another thread someone has also suggested taking utrogestan at a different time of day if sleep quality at night is affected, but as you say one thing at a time.

You'll get there eventually!

All the best
Hurdity x

Hi Hurdity.

Really appreciate your reply.

I was also wondering if it was the progesterone.

Thing is my sleep the past month and a half has been ok, not great but ok, so I wonder why the progesterone has started affecting me now. I have only just decreased the gel due to my breasts being sore etc, and I didn't want my oestrogen to be too high.

I take the utro vaginally just before bed, however I have two options, to either take it vaginally in the morning or to take it orally at night.

I will keep everyone updated and thanks again Hurdity x

[discogirl]

Hi discogirl, I think I might have said this before, but I think it could be really important for you right now. If I don’t take utrogestan (orally) I literally lie there in bed with my eyes wide open, I take it and I’m asleep within half an hour. If you tried it for a few days and didn’t like it it would be out of your system within a few days anyway. It’s up to you but I really think it would help you. In my experience once you have been in hrt for a while, any changes you make can be quickly reversed, so you can try something and correct it quickly if necessary. I really hope you feel better soon and will be thinking of you. Xxx

Ps- in my experience oestrogen is the energising hormone but can keep you awake if you take it at night, utrogestan makes me sleep deep and wake refreshed, UNLESS I take too much, by missing my 3 day break or taking too close to food or with magnesium, in which case it keeps me awake. It is possible the utro could interact with your amitryptiline but you could try it unless it’s contraindicated. Utro taken orally can be bloomin amazing if you get it right, which I’ve done with trial and error.

Hi Katherine,

Thanks so much for great advice.

I take the amitrypline in the morning, so since I'd be taking the utro orally in the evening that shouldn't interact with it.

I put my gel on in the morning as I would find it too energising at night.

The only thing I worry about with taking the utro orally is that I've read that it can interfer with tinnitus, which I obviously don't want to get worse, however I could give it a try and see what happens Katherine.

Thank so much for your reply, I really appreciate everyone's advice, it's so helpful xxx

[Hurdity]

Hi discogirl

As said before - maybe change one thing at a time so maybe see how you react to the reduced dose of oestrogen first - try this for at least as month if you can? Then see about changing the progesterone, though you may not want to wait as it sounds like two different things. Sore boobs and tired but wired. Depends on how you feel with vaginal use. Yes maybe try it in the morning vaginally. This wouldn't work with me as have had several children and gravity would mean it slipped down. This may also be a factor for most women - even without children - the gravity effect. It doesn't stick to the vaginal walls like vagifem. So maybe oral at night first?

All the best.

Hurdity x

[discogirl]

Hi discogirl

As said before - maybe change one thing at a time so maybe see how you react to the reduced dose of oestrogen first - try this for at least as month if you can? Then see about changing the progesterone, though you may not want to wait as it sounds like two different things. Sore boobs and tired but wired. Depends on how you feel with vaginal use. Yes maybe try it in the morning vaginally. This wouldn't work with me as have had several children and gravity would mean it slipped down. This may also be a factor for most women - even without children - the gravity effect. It doesn't stick to the vaginal walls like vagifem. So maybe oral at night first?

All the best.

Hurdity x

Hi Hurdity,

yes it does seem like two different things going on once.

I have reduced the gel to 3 pumps and a tiny blob, to see how things go with that.

Regarding the progesterone, I am tempted to try it orally to see how I get on with it xx

[discogirl]

Hi all,

I just wanted to say thank you to all the lovely ladies for taking the time to give me some great advice this morning.

It really and truly has helped and some advice I will implement to see how I get on. It's also nice to know I'm not alone.

You've all really helped thanks again.

I will report back to let you know how I get on as it may help other ladies in similar situations xx

[Madeline]

Discogirl sending you hugs....I am a bit like you to be honest...I feel I have had enough.

It's a hard decision to stop or stay meandering on it HRT .

I had the worst symptoms hence I went on HRT but now I feel Like I need to try and see what I am like off it. I have been on it 2 years, up and down.

Hrt takes away some symptoms but causes others 

I have put up a post, I will update it and you will see how I am finding coming off it.

I think you have done the right thing slowly coming off it as I think you said you were on 4 pumps.

xxx

[Pippa52]

discogirl - so very sorry to hear the problems you are having.  I had awful problems with Oestrogel despite being on it for over 25 years with no problems.  I have no doubt that something in the formula has changed as I went back on it when it became available again and it made me feel really ill, wired could not sleep, palpitations etc. A blood test (53pmol) proved that I was not absorbing it at all and the Meno consultant said I may as well not be on HRT at all.  I was changed onto Estradot patches which I am increasing slowly up to 75 (at present on 62) and definitely improving (latest blood oestradiol level last week was 144 pmol) but have been warned it will take time to get back on an even keel and get up to a level over 200.  Just wanted to let you know you are not alone re Oestrogel problems and hope so much you start to feel better soon xx

[discogirl]

hi Pippa52

i know you have had issues with the newer gel. how disheartening for you after all those years on gel too.

thank you so much for your kind
comments.

im going to have to give the pumps a go and maybe change the way i take the utro but my plan has been to give estradot a go. when i first started hrt  last august i started on estraderm but my levels didnt seem to improve and they didnt seem to stick.

thanks so much xxx

[discogirl]

Discogirl sending you hugs....I am a bit like you to be honest...I feel I have had enough.

It's a hard decision to stop or stay meandering on it HRT .

I had the worst symptoms hence I went on HRT but now I feel Like I need to try and see what I am like off it. I have been on it 2 years, up and down.

Hrt takes away some symptoms but causes others 

I have put up a post, I will update it and you will see how I am finding coming off it.

I think you have done the right thing slowly coming off it as I think you said you were on 4 pumps.

xxx

Hi Madeline

Yes I have just tweaked down to 3 and a bit pumps.

I would like to stay on HRT to be honest, I would like to give it a good go before I decide its not for me.

I need to stay on my current 3 and a bit for while, maybe change how I take the utrogestan and then maybe see about trying estradot patches.

I hope you make the right decision whatever that is xxx

[discogirl]

Hi discogirl, I think I might have said this before, but I think it could be really important for you right now. If I don’t take utrogestan (orally) I literally lie there in bed with my eyes wide open, I take it and I’m asleep within half an hour. If you tried it for a few days and didn’t like it it would be out of your system within a few days anyway. It’s up to you but I really think it would help you. In my experience once you have been in hrt for a while, any changes you make can be quickly reversed, so you can try something and correct it quickly if necessary. I really hope you feel better soon and will be thinking of you. Xxx

Ps- in my experience oestrogen is the energising hormone but can keep you awake if you take it at night, utrogestan makes me sleep deep and wake refreshed, UNLESS I take too much, by missing my 3 day break or taking too close to food or with magnesium, in which case it keeps me awake. It is possible the utro could interact with your amitryptiline but you could try it unless it’s contraindicated. Utro taken orally can be bloomin amazing if you get it right, which I’ve done with trial and error.

Can I ask Katharine,

Sorry I may have asked you before, but are you post meno?

Its just I was told by my gp to take the utrogestan continously every night.

Yet the leaflet for utrogestan says something different, do you not take it every day/night of the month?

Do you leave a three day gap at the end of the month?

I've never done that xxx

[Katherine]

Hi discogirl, I have regular periods but my gp says I’m in peri menopause because they are heavier than before and I have many physical and mental symptoms of low oestrogen/ falling oestrogen. She initially said I could take 100mg continuously, as I get insomnia and was sleeping very light, and she said continuous utro would help with that. But I have found I need a break from it regularly as it seems to build up in my system so I now have a 3 day break every cycle.

[discogirl]

Hi discogirl, I have regular periods but my gp says I’m in peri menopause because they are heavier than before and I have many physical and mental symptoms of low oestrogen/ falling oestrogen. She initially said I could take 100mg continuously, as I get insomnia and was sleeping very light, and she said continuous utro would help with that. But I have found I need a break from it regularly as it seems to build up in my system so I now have a 3 day break every cycle.

Ah I see katherine,

Well I'm going to try it orally for a few nights, see what happens.

I'll let you know xx

[discogirl]

Hi discogirl, I have regular periods but my gp says I’m in peri menopause because they are heavier than before and I have many physical and mental symptoms of low oestrogen/ falling oestrogen. She initially said I could take 100mg continuously, as I get insomnia and was sleeping very light, and she said continuous utro would help with that. But I have found I need a break from it regularly as it seems to build up in my system so I now have a 3 day break every cycle.

Hi Katherine

Sorry, another question, how do you know when the utrogestan has built up in your system?

Thanks xx