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[Mag22]

I’ve started hrt to combat severe low mood and body aches and osteoporosis after nearly 20 years with low or no hormones (early meno then tubes and ovaries removed due to cysts)
I’ve had bad experiences with progesterone in the past hence avoiding hrt altogether.
I tried vaginal utrogestan but within days I’m back in the worst dark place where I never go normally. I stopped it and am just trying oestrogel alone to see if I feel better and I do have less body pain but am starting to get really sleepy and no appetite and womb cramps. I’m only doing one pump and I know I will have to look at how I get progesterone but is it ok to carry on see if these adverse effects settle or is it because I’m not doing the progesterone ?
I will discuss with gp but I tell her what I need based on discussions from here! She is very helpful but I can’t expect her to have all the latest approaches.
I have heard of people following a minimal progesterone regime of 7 days a month, I would struggle with 2 days but is 7 the least I can get away with?
Also does anyone just dispense with progesterone altogether and how do you manage that?
Sorry more questions but this is last chance go at hrt so I want to try and make it work if I can.
Thanks.

[Flossieteacake]

Hello Mag. If you have tried all the different types of progesterone and are unable to take any then there is the option to use oestrogen alone and have regular scans to ensure the lining of the womb does not thicken. Perhaps that is something you would like to try.

[Mag22]

Thanks, I will take that to my gp appointment

[sheila99]

I'm afraid I don't agree with that advice, if you have a womb you can't take none at all. When the lining builds up you're at greater risk of endometrial cancer so no doctor is going to prescribe oestrogen only.  You can use oestrogen only for a month or so but after that you either need to get the progesterone sorted or see if you can have a hysterectomy. Anything below the 'normal' dose you need regular scans to stay safe. There is a long thread on compounded progesterone that may be a way forward for you.
What progestogens have you tried? Perhaps someone can suggest something else. Have you tried provera? It seems to suit some people who are unable to tolerate utrogeston.

[Mag22]

I have tried the combo patches and utrogestan orally and vaginally. It has the same impact every time so although people have suggested the mirena it is so devastating that if I couldn’t immediately stop it I can’t risk it.
Will look at the compounded progesterone thread thanks

[Mary G]

Hello Mag. If you have tried all the different types of progesterone and are unable to take any then there is the option to use oestrogen alone and have regular scans to ensure the lining of the womb does not thicken. Perhaps that is something you would like to try.

I believe this is practised in the US for women with extreme progesterone intolerance using a Menostar patch which is about 16mcg?  Obviously they all have scans and a gynaecologist.   

If you did this using one pump of gel over a long period of time, you would get womb lining build up and you will probably bleed.

I think Utrogestan is terrible stuff and I can't go anywhere near it.  I now I use a brilliant progesterone gel @ 50mg every day with zero side effects along with one pump of Oestrogel.   The problem is I buy it in Spain so that is not much help to you but it does at least offer the hope of a viable alternative.

In your situation, I would source a transdermal progesterone cream and take 50 mg every day.   If you take a look in the Alternative Therapies section on here, you will see threads on compounded hormones and Biovea progesterone cream etc which is very similar to my Spanish gel.

Important point, my progesterone gel is not licensed for use as part of an HRT regime and in theory, it should not work on the womb lining but it does work extremely well and my last scan was below the 5mm danger line - anything over 5mm is very high risk on a continuous combined regime or immediately post bleed on a cyclical regime.   

You will need regular scans which is a good thing because it checks on ovaries, bladder etc. .

PS:  Sorry, I forgot to say yes you can take 7 x 100mg Utrogestan vaginally every month but it will mean bleeding which gets pretty intolerable as you get older.

One year when I was really struggling with Utrogestan I took just 20 x100mg over the entire 12 months.   I used to bleed automatically when the womb lining hit 7mm ish but it was horrible.   Womb lining measurement was still within range posts bleed but the bleeding was repulsive and I would not recommend it.

[Flossieteacake]

Sorry if I have given you bad advice Mag. I have extreme progesterone intolerance and was offered this option by the menopause clinic I am registered with on the NHS. I did not realise it should not be suggested.

[Mary G]

Sorry if I have given you bad advice Mag. I have extreme progesterone intolerance and was offered this option by the menopause clinic I am registered with on the NHS. I did not realise it should not be suggested.

You have done nothing wrong in mentioning it on a free and open forum.  Fact is fact and it is practised in the US and interestingly you have told us it is sometimes practised in the UK.   There is nothing wrong with putting it out there and informing women.   We are not children.

[Flossieteacake]

Sorry if I have given you bad advice Mag. I have extreme progesterone intolerance and was offered this option by the menopause clinic I am registered with on the NHS. I did not realise it should not be suggested.
[/quote

You have done nothing wrong in mentioning it on a free and open forum.  Fact is fact and it is practised in the US and interestingly you have told us it is sometimes practised in the UK.   There is nothing wrong with putting it out there and informing women.   We are not children.

Thank you Mary 

[Mag22]

Sorry if I have given you bad advice Mag. I have extreme progesterone intolerance and was offered this option by the menopause clinic I am registered with on the NHS. I did not realise it should not be suggested.

Don’t worry at all, I have read about doing this and really looking for first hand experiences. As someone else said we are all grown ups and can take our own decisions. Thanks for replying and that option is very much on my list

[Mag22]

Hello Mag. If you have tried all the different types of progesterone and are unable to take any then there is the option to use oestrogen alone and have regular scans to ensure the lining of the womb does not thicken. Perhaps that is something you would like to try.

I believe this is practised in the US for women with extreme progesterone intolerance using a Menostar patch which is about 16mcg?  Obviously they all have scans and a gynaecologist.   

If you did this using one pump of gel over a long period of time, you would get womb lining build up and you will probably bleed.

I think Utrogestan is terrible stuff and I can't go anywhere near it.  I now I use a brilliant progesterone gel @ 50mg every day with zero side effects along with one pump of Oestrogel.   The problem is I buy it in Spain so that is not much help to you but it does at least offer the hope of a viable alternative.

In your situation, I would source a transdermal progesterone cream and take 50 mg every day.   If you take a look in the Alternative Therapies section on here, you will see threads on compounded hormones and Biovea progesterone cream etc which is very similar to my Spanish gel.

Important point, my progesterone gel is not licensed for use as part of an HRT regime and in theory, it should not work on the womb lining but it does work extremely well and my last scan was below the 5mm danger line - anything over 5mm is very high risk on a continuous combined regime or immediately post bleed on a cyclical regime.   

You will need regular scans which is a good thing because it checks on ovaries, bladder etc. .

PS:  Sorry, I forgot to say yes you can take 7 x 100mg Utrogestan vaginally every month but it will mean bleeding which gets pretty intolerable as you get older.

One year when I was really struggling with Utrogestan I took just 20 x100mg over the entire 12 months.   I used to bleed automatically when the womb lining hit 7mm ish but it was horrible.   Womb lining measurement was still within range posts bleed but the bleeding was repulsive and I would not recommend it.

Thanks very much. Interesting as I did use a transdermal progesterone successfully after I had my son due to oestrogen dominance diagnosed by some doctor who may or may not have been discredited since ( 20 years ago)
Also I am in Spain regularly and have family there so will see if I can source it and give it a go.
Interesting that isn’t considered an option to try here as much less hassle than a mirena which is what gp keeps suggesting and gives me the horrors.

[Mary G]

Mag22, if you want to give the progesterone gel a try, it's called Darstin and it comes in a tube with a measuring slide.   It costs about €10.00 and you might have to order it.  I use two full slides every night (about 50mg) and I honestly don't have any side effects at all.   Not only do I get decent womb lining measurements with it, I also have good blood levels so I'm obviously absorbing it well.   I use it with one generous pump of Oestraclin which is the Spanish equivalent of Oestrogel but it's more or less the same.

GPs like to push the Mirena coil because it's the easy option with no monitoring required.   Some women get on well with it but it's a synthetic progesterone that I found caused breast pain and both vaginal infections and irritation.   Although the progesterone is mostly confined to the womb, enough of it gets into your overall system to cause side effects in some women.

Depending on how soon you are coming over here, you could try Biovea progesterone cream in the interim.

[Flossieteacake]

Sorry if I have given you bad advice Mag. I have extreme progesterone intolerance and was offered this option by the menopause clinic I am registered with on the NHS. I did not realise it should not be suggested.

Don’t worry at all, I have read about doing this and really looking for first hand experiences. As someone else said we are all grown ups and can take our own decisions. Thanks for replying and that option is very much on my list

It was my pleasure. Thank you.