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[Nas]

Or lack of it!
My sleep is getting worse and worse. I’ve tried night nurse, amitriptyline, phenergan. everything and they’ve all stopped working.

My next purchase will be melatonin but seriously, why can’t I sleep? I am permanently tired, dark rings round my eyes, I look a mess 😢

It doesn’t matter what dose HRT  I take, it doesn’t help my sleep.

Melatonin is my only saviour now.

I’m certain I’m awake with my eyes closed most nights.

Will try more exercise I think as that is lacking and stay off the screen 2 hours before bed. Might try a banana before bed too.

[sheila99]

Let us know how you get on, it's something I might try. My problem isn't hrt it's a husband who can't stay still but once I'm awake I can't get to sleep again while he's snoring away 

[Floo36]

Has, it’s torture it really is, I don’t sleep and it’s all down to low Estrogen.  If we can get enough in then sleep will return. Good luck with the melatonin.

[Nas]

Do you really think it’s all oestrogen linked Floo?
God I would need bucket loads and really wouldn’t know where to start with it all.

Sheila, yes I have a partner who snores and jumps around. I’m in the spare bed most night niw and still can’t sleep!! 🥱😴

[flutterby]

Hi Nas When I was on HRT (16years) I had hardly any sleep problems. Last year insomnia really kicked in with high anxiety levels, ended up taking Mirtazapine 15mg which helped with sleep as well as anxiety. However a year later I’ve started having a few bad nights.
I then realised that it could be the fact that I’d swapped Opti Magnesium (Healthspan) for another brand. I can definitely recommend taking a good absorbable magnesium tablet or two before bedtime.
Hope this might work for you
You can have a bath with magnesium salts or use a body cream with it in as it is well absorbed through the skin
Flutterby x

[Gilla999]

Nas I know you were on Mirtazapine before, was there a reason you stopped it? Just wondering whether Trazodone could be an option - it's what I've switched to from Mirtazapine. I find it works in much the same way but doesn't have weight gain as a side effect. It is of course an antidepressant primarily, so not to be taken lightly.

I would echo what Floo says though - in my personal experiene if your Estrogen is not as high as it wants to be, nothing is going to work for your sleep for more than a couple of nights. I also found that it took me some experiementing to find the right product and dose (eg I initially tried the patch and that didn't seem to work, but Lenzetto worked very quickly). No doubt you've already been through all that trial and error but just trying to think of suggestions to help xx

By the way I also take 2mg of Circadin (prescription melatonin) every night - it doesn't do much for me, but if melatonin is really the issue for you that might be different!

[Mary G]

Nas, what dose of amitriptyline were you taking?   I take 50mg every day with 1.5mg melatonin for migraine prevention and it completely knocks me out and I never wake up until my alarm goes.   

Sorry but can you remind us of your HRT regime, dose and oestrogen blood levels?

[Nas]

50mg of amitriptyline Mary.
It gives me an awful dry mouth too. It did used to work, so not sure what’s going on.

My HRT regime is 75 patch, mirena coil and I’ve just started tostron x 3 weekly. Been on that patch 2 years plus now.

My blood levels in July were about 300. Haven’t had a blood test since.

[Nas]

Mary, what time do you take your amitriptyline? I need to ge up for 7am and take it around 8pm each night.

[Mary G]

Nas, that's baffling because you have good oestrogen blood levels and you were taking a medium dose of amitriptyline. 

How long were you taking the amitriptyline?

The only thing I can think of is the lack of natural progesterone - obviously the Mirena contains synthetic progesterone.  A lack of natural progesterone is thought to be one of reasons why menopausal women suffer from insomnia.

I would start with 3mg melatonin and perhaps take it with a lower dose of amitriptyline.   If that doesn't work I would add in some transdermal progesterone.

I take the amitriptyline 12 hours before I plan to get up which is never early unless I can't avoid it because I'm allergic to mornings!

[discogirl]

Hi Nas,

My sleep issues started in feb when I developed tinnitus. GP put on amitrypline,  I went up to 40mg, it knocked me out at night initially, however after a time you can become accustomed to the amityline and it stops working, that's what happened to me.

Prior to feb I slept for britain, literally, never any problems; the amitrypline helped with the tinnitus however my sleep didn't return. I got terrible anxiety, it was awful. I researched a bit and thought that my estrogen might be low, so I got it checked at my doctors and my levels were 19;

so in august i started hrt, patches at first, I'm now on gel. My sleep is better but I think it's something I will have to work on with my hrt.

One thing to remember with any AD's including amitry, is that amitry is notoriously hard to come off, I only take 10mg now and I take that in the morning. Weaning off AD's slowly is the key, if you come off them too quickly they can cause sleep issues.

I'm convinced that low estrogen was the main cause for my sleep issues.

I take magnesium bisglycincate as well, I take chealted form and non buffered, some companies sell buffered products which means they mix the glycinate with a cheaper form of magnesium.

Hope that helps and I hope you start to feel better soon. I really do sympathise with you xx

[Nas]

Gilla, I took mirtazapine for a couple of nights only. I really didn’t want to become dependent on that drug at all.

What dose of lenzetto do you take now? It’s such a flipping faff all of this. I mean I have a colleague who is same age as me , no menopause and sleeps for a solid 8 hours EVERY night!!

I could try a different hrt I guess. For me, the bladder needs to be kept happy first and foremost. That’s fine right now, but sleep is appalling!

[Nas]

Ah disco, I’ve not taken amitriptyline all holiday so I wonder if that’s why I’m struggling now??

Mary, I’ve been on the 50mg for a good 3 months. It did work well for a long time but suddenly not so well. I do have some progesterone and oestrogen cream ( well springs) so wonder if that might help? Still going to buy the melatonin but was going to opt for the 5mg. Do you think that’s still too high?

[Gilla999]

Nas if you suddenly stopped Amitryptiline that will 100% be contributing to worse sleep (and anxiety and all sorts). If I tried to stop any of those AD drugs - Trazodone, Mirtazapine, Sertraline - cold turkey I would be in an absolute state! I have to taper at 10% a month just to not have rebound insomnia.

If you were still experiencing insomnia even while taking the Ami then obviously it can't be the whole reason though. Is it problems getting to sleep, or problems waking once you're asleep?

Lenzetto, I'm on 4 sprays and have been for a while, which I think is equivalent to about 62.5mg of a patch. I've still been ovulating but recently that's begun to give up the ghost. Interesting on your 300 level - we're all so different - because I need mine to be about 700-800 to feel well!

[CLKD]

Sleep can become its own disaster.  When I had a busy job = panic attacks, I would wake: to see if I had been asleep.  I would worry that lack of sleep would mean that I was bad at my job: nope.  1 night in 1981 I decided that I hadn't yet died due to lack of sleep, have been OK since.  Apart from the odd night: can't get off to sleep or wake after an hour, so I read.  Had a TV in the bedroom but the flashing screen in the dark made DH restless.

If he were to be edgy in his sleep we would have a bed each in the same room ;-).  Also, making sure that the mattress is comfortable as well as not too hot/cold: I can't sleep well without a quilt on top as I like a weight. 

Eating well.  Being hungry can cause the body to wake.

Keeping hydrated.  Napping in the day if you need to, this will not alter the chance of your dropping off in bed. Despite what the so called 'experts' suggest.  It might mean that you drop off later, so go to bed later. 

Do U have a bed time routine?  Switch off all social media etc..  Don't read anything that will stimulate the brain.  I have found relaxation from toes upwards useful.  Stretch the toes, hold, then relax.  In each muscle group working upwards but not as hard which may cause cramp!  I did this the other night  .

A lot of sleep problems is in the brain - which gets into the whizz of can't sleep/won't sleep.  Some find that if, after 30 mins they haven't dropped off, they get up to sew, knit etc. helps refocus the mind.  Apparently as we age we don't need as much sleep .........

Give the Melatonin a try but don't expect too much too soon.