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[discogirl]

Hi

I agree with you re sleep meds I just thought it might be an option. I found hypnotherapy helped massively with my sleep issues a few years ago.

Hopefully once you get your HRT sorted it will improve your sleep xx

Thanks for your reply Nik2502 as I know you are having issues as well.

Let me know how you get on with your hrt regime x

[Flossieteacake]

I wonder if it is something some of us have to endure. In the early stages of menopause I used to wake in the early hours and not go back to sleep. I think I had about 5 hours sleep which is not enough for me. Later on I slept better and now I am having sleep issues again. It takes me 2 hours to fall asleep and then I wake through out the night. I then wake up exhausted but cannot go back to sleep at all. I know there is a sleep issue thread on here so for some of us maybe it is not an oestrogen issue.

I was debating if I should post this Disco as I do not want to make you feel any worse but then thought it may help for you to know you are not alone.

[MIS71MUM]

Just a couple of thoughts, do you change your patch in the morning? I would always try that as when I was on patches, changing at night or later on in day, affected my sleep.
Also I have a pillow spray and a magnesium spray. I can recommend both of those.
About the gel, I think the 17b is no more sadly! You will either get green or yellow. I’m lead to believe that the green is the newer one.
Good luck you will get better xxx

[discogirl]

Hi Discogirl
When you increased to 50 you say your sleep got better for a few weeks. That indicates your body needs a bit more. Why don’t you just add another half a patch so you’ll be on 75 just to see how you go?  This is what I had to do. Sometimes it feels too much and I cut a tiny bit off. Good luck.

Hi Mollydolly,

Thanks for your reply.

To be honest I am sooool tempted to do this, but I've only been on the 50 patch since 22nd October and I'm reluctant to add more so quickly. I am trying to take it slowly.

However, if things don't improve then I will have to; I can't continue on 2 to 3 hrs sleep.

How long were you on the 50 patch before you increasesd 75 can I ask xx

[discogirl]

Just a couple of thoughts, do you change your patch in the morning? I would always try that as when I was on patches, changing at night or later on in day, affected my sleep.
Also I have a pillow spray and a magnesium spray. I can recommend both of those.
About the gel, I think the 17b is no more sadly! You will either get green or yellow. I’m lead to believe that the green is the newer one.
Good luck you will get better xxx

Hi MIS71MUM,

Thanks for your reply.

I change my patch in the morning for that reason; which is why I contemplating the gel as I know that sometimes estrogen patches, I believe a side effect can be sleep problems, but so can low estrogen for that.

I take mag bisglycinate, it doesn't help me sleep and doesn't seem to relax me either.

When I get to bed, I am so fearful of not sleeping, my heart feels it beating so hard and fast that it feels as though its going to come out of my chest xx

[discogirl]

I wonder if it is something some of us have to endure. In the early stages of menopause I used to wake in the early hours and not go back to sleep. I think I had about 5 hours sleep which is not enough for me. Later on I slept better and now I am having sleep issues again. It takes me 2 hours to fall asleep and then I wake through out the night. I then wake up exhausted but cannot go back to sleep at all. I know there is a sleep issue thread on here so for some of us maybe it is not an oestrogen issue.

I was debating if I should post this Disco as I do not want to make you feel any worse but then thought it may help for you to know you are not alone.

Hi Flossieteacake,

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner, I've been out all day and just about to go out again!

I'm glad you posted it Flossie, you know I'm always very grateful for your advice and I tend to agree, the way I used to sleep until last year was lovely but I'm a realist and understand that that kind of sleep may not come back to me now.

Can I just ask, do you think that maybe low estrogen is not the issue here? If that's the case then me increasing my estrogen won't help.

I don't have hot flushes or night sweats anymore with me it's difficult falling asleep which is anxiety related.

This is by far the hardest thing I have ever had to overcome and I feel I will not overcome it.

Even if there was a pattern to my sleeping but there isn't.

I'm sorry you're having sleep issues, if you are having problems actually getting to sleep then that's the same as me.

I have a sort of plan in as much as, I'm weaning myself off amitrypline slowly, I take it in the mornings but I hate the drug, then I will have a look at hrt to see what I might do with that.

Thanks so very much for your reply, I always value your opinion and I really hope you're okay as well xxxx

[Dotty]

https://www.newsonhealth.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Sleep-and-hormones-v21-02.pdf

An interesting article for you x

[Flossieteacake]

I wonder if it is something some of us have to endure. In the early stages of menopause I used to wake in the early hours and not go back to sleep. I think I had about 5 hours sleep which is not enough for me. Later on I slept better and now I am having sleep issues again. It takes me 2 hours to fall asleep and then I wake through out the night. I then wake up exhausted but cannot go back to sleep at all. I know there is a sleep issue thread on here so for some of us maybe it is not an oestrogen issue.

I was debating if I should post this Disco as I do not want to make you feel any worse but then thought it may help for you to know you are not alone.

Hi Flossieteacake,

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner, I've been out all day and just about to go out again!

I'm glad you posted it Flossie, you know I'm always very grateful for your advice and I tend to agree, the way I used to sleep until last year was lovely but I'm a realist and understand that that kind of sleep may not come back to me now.

Can I just ask, do you think that maybe low estrogen is not the issue here? If that's the case then me increasing my estrogen won't help.

I don't have hot flushes or night sweats anymore with me it's difficult falling asleep which is anxiety related.

This is by far the hardest thing I have ever had to overcome and I feel I will not overcome it.

Even if there was a pattern to my sleeping but there isn't.

I'm sorry you're having sleep issues, if you are having problems actually getting to sleep then that's the same as me.

I have a sort of plan in as much as, I'm weaning myself off amitrypline slowly, I take it in the mornings but I hate the drug, then I will have a look at hrt to see what I might do with that.

Thanks so very much for your reply, I always value your opinion and I really hope you're okay as well xxxx

Please do not apologise. I am glad you are busy and getting out. 

I really do not know if it lack of oestrogen. I just worry you are holding on to finding the magic number in order for you to sleep and that is causing you more stress. You are sensitive to oestrogen changes and when you rush it you feel unwell. The slow approach has been more beneficial for you.

It is a good idea to taper of Amitryptine and hopefully that will help in the long run.

I am so sorry you are feeling so overwhelmed with this. To se you put it is the hardest thing you have had to overcome shows how distressing you are finding it.

To look at the upside, you no longer have hot flushes or night sweats. I think that is great as they are horrid symptoms. I also feel it is still so early for your hormones to have adjusted and stabilised. You have been on HRT since August which is not very long at all.

Sometimes I think we can compare ourselves to others and it feels like we are falling behind. For example, I see members who have seen massive improvements in their vaginal atrophy but mine is still bad after a year of treatment. I feel menopause is so personal and what one person found helpful may not help another person. I understand you are anxious and just want to be able to sleep but I strongly feel that will only stop you sleeping. I lie awake for about 2 hours every single night before I can sleep. I think people who sleep quickly are very fortunate.

[discogirl]

https://www.newsonhealth.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Sleep-and-hormones-v21-02.pdf

An interesting article for you x

Hi Dotty,

Thanks so much I will have a read.

Thank you by the way for faithfully being there for me xx

[discogirl]

I wonder if it is something some of us have to endure. In the early stages of menopause I used to wake in the early hours and not go back to sleep. I think I had about 5 hours sleep which is not enough for me. Later on I slept better and now I am having sleep issues again. It takes me 2 hours to fall asleep and then I wake through out the night. I then wake up exhausted but cannot go back to sleep at all. I know there is a sleep issue thread on here so for some of us maybe it is not an oestrogen issue.

I was debating if I should post this Disco as I do not want to make you feel any worse but then thought it may help for you to know you are not alone.

Hi Flossieteacake,

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner, I've been out all day and just about to go out again!

I'm glad you posted it Flossie, you know I'm always very grateful for your advice and I tend to agree, the way I used to sleep until last year was lovely but I'm a realist and understand that that kind of sleep may not come back to me now.

Can I just ask, do you think that maybe low estrogen is not the issue here? If that's the case then me increasing my estrogen won't help.

I don't have hot flushes or night sweats anymore with me it's difficult falling asleep which is anxiety related.

This is by far the hardest thing I have ever had to overcome and I feel I will not overcome it.

Even if there was a pattern to my sleeping but there isn't.

I'm sorry you're having sleep issues, if you are having problems actually getting to sleep then that's the same as me.

I have a sort of plan in as much as, I'm weaning myself off amitrypline slowly, I take it in the mornings but I hate the drug, then I will have a look at hrt to see what I might do with that.

Thanks so very much for your reply, I always value your opinion and I really hope you're okay as well xxxx

Please do not apologise. I am glad you are busy and getting out. 

I really do not know if it lack of oestrogen. I just worry you are holding on to finding the magic number in order for you to sleep and that is causing you more stress. You are sensitive to oestrogen changes and when you rush it you feel unwell. The slow approach has been more beneficial for you.

It is a good idea to taper of Amitryptine and hopefully that will help in the long run.

I am so sorry you are feeling so overwhelmed with this. To se you put it is the hardest thing you have had to overcome shows how distressing you are finding it.

To look at the upside, you no longer have hot flushes or night sweats. I think that is great as they are horrid symptoms. I also feel it is still so early for your hormones to have adjusted and stabilised. You have been on HRT since August which is not very long at all.

Sometimes I think we can compare ourselves to others and it feels like we are falling behind. For example, I see members who have seen massive improvements in their vaginal atrophy but mine is still bad after a year of treatment. I feel menopause is so personal and what one person found helpful may not help another person. I understand you are anxious and just want to be able to sleep but I strongly feel that will only stop you sleeping. I lie awake for about 2 hours every single night before I can sleep. I think people who sleep quickly are very fortunate.

Hi Flossieteacake,

what words of wisdom as usual.

You're right, I think as well for me, sorry if this sounds lame, but I actually grieve as up until february I slept like a baby, had virtually no symptoms that really bothered me.

I'm so sorry you're having problems falling asleep, do you know why you're having trouble falling asleep?

And yes, I'm determined to get off amity but I'm doing it slowly.

Its' so difficult with the patches and increasing, I do know the wisest thing is to take things slowly as tempting as it is to increase quickly.

Thanks so very very much Flossie, everyone on here has been truly remarkable xxxx

[Flossieteacake]

Hi Flossieteacake,

what words of wisdom as usual.

You're right, I think as well for me, sorry if this sounds lame, but I actually grieve as up until february I slept like a baby, had virtually no symptoms that really bothered me.

I'm so sorry you're having problems falling asleep, do you know why you're having trouble falling asleep?

And yes, I'm determined to get off amity but I'm doing it slowly.

Its' so difficult with the patches and increasing, I do know the wisest thing is to take things slowly as tempting as it is to increase quickly.

Thanks so very very much Flossie, everyone on here has been truly remarkable xxxx
[/quote]

You do not sound lame at all. To have been sleeping well to not sleeping is horrible and exhausting. I always think nothing beats decent sleep and lack of sleep makes everything feel so much worse.

I do not know why I have trouble falling asleep. Likely just menopause. Maybe one day my sleep will get better but until then I just try to take each day as it comes.

You are so welcome.

[discogirl]

Hi Flossieteacake,

what words of wisdom as usual.

You're right, I think as well for me, sorry if this sounds lame, but I actually grieve as up until february I slept like a baby, had virtually no symptoms that really bothered me.

I'm so sorry you're having problems falling asleep, do you know why you're having trouble falling asleep?

And yes, I'm determined to get off amity but I'm doing it slowly.

Its' so difficult with the patches and increasing, I do know the wisest thing is to take things slowly as tempting as it is to increase quickly.

Thanks so very very much Flossie, everyone on here has been truly remarkable xxxx

You do not sound lame at all. To have been sleeping well to not sleeping is horrible and exhausting. I always think nothing beats decent sleep and lack of sleep makes everything feel so much worse.

I do not know why I have trouble falling asleep. Likely just menopause. Maybe one day my sleep will get better but until then I just try to take each day as it comes.

You are so welcome.
[/quote]

My hubby has episodes of poor sleep and his attitude is like your's; I just get really anxious, which doesn't help things xxx

[Flossieteacake]

It is understandable to feel anxious as you are thinking you will never sleep. I still think CBT may benefit you. You can get CBT especially for sleep and I have heard it has helped many.

[discogirl]

I may look into that, I was even thinking about hypnotherapy for it as well xxx

[Flossieteacake]

I may look into that, I was even thinking about hypnotherapy for it as well xxx

CBT is free so perhaps you could give that a go first. You can self refer online too. It is great you have other ideas too.