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[Kathleen]

Hello again ladies.

I have been a patient of Newson Health for two years and they too have assumed that I needed more and more oestrogen. At one time my levels were 600pmol/L and I was told that I should be feeling good, especially as my testosterone ( also prescribed by them ) was also at a good level.

I was expecting to hear why the standard treatment wasn't working and to be offered an alternative approach. I knew from this site that many ladies struggle with HRT so it couldn't just be me. Unfortunately no other course of action was offered.

Before joining NH I had a brief telephone conversation with an NHS consultant who had found that too much Oestrogen caused problems of its own and he advised me to lower my dose.
I am now following his advice ( better late than never) and I hope to speak to him again soon.

I now wonder if the extreme anxiety that appeared three years after my last period was infact due to higher Oestrogen/ lower progesterone in which case the standard treatment was never going to work.

I will of course update the forum after speaking to the consultant, whenever that may be. In the meantime I will carry on with my experiment and try not to go too mad in the process lol.

There has to be a reason why the standard treatment doesn't help some of us and perhaps we will be the group that finally works it out!.

Wishing you all well ladies.

K.

[Marchlove]

Wouldn’t that be wonderful Kathleen!

Let us know how you get on xxxx

[CrispyChick]

Thanks ladies.

Kathleen - that is very interesting. Certainly, through my troubles and searches, I have come across post meno ladies who only take prog. The reason cited is that estrogen hides out in our cells, so serum measurements are never accurate and you can indeed be estrogen dominant post meno they say.

Currently the hiding out in the cells bit is what I'm interested in, as the limited info I have come across suggests it is this very hidden estrogen that can move back into action when you start supplementing prog... My figures certainly read like this has happened and my symptoms sure as hell feel like it.

Mary - thank you for your lovely post. It is indeed crazy that noone can assist with this. Never mind the NHS, even my private BHRT clinic denied prog could increase my estrogen to start with. I really do feel quite alone.

Im on lots of vits and minerals in an attempt to address all this. I have, for a very long time been on a tiny dose of escitaopram. Don't think it does anything, but equally, I'm not going to rock the boat by stopping it. I was on it long before all this... Interestingly for post natal anxiety. I now believe it was probably low prog back then too.

So on I plod. There don't seem to be many (any) women on this forum who take only progesterone. Quite interesting. Other countries are full of them. As you rightly say, progesterone is known to head south  much earlier than estrogen - are we to assume only a few of us are affected??? I think that unlikely.

Good luck Kathleen. I hope this is your solution xx

[Gilla999]

Crispy you mention you tried Estrogen a couple of weeks ago - what kind was it? Was this a finger **** blood test? Just wondering if it could be contaminated (has happened to me several times).

Blood tests have been and comtinue to be extremely useful for me in Peri. I have never found any personal truth in the supposed extreme fluctuations by the day - obviously yes if you're talking about single or double digits, but I've been testing mine pretty much monthly for over a year and there is a reliable pattern (to within say 100 pmol) if you test on the same day or thereabouts of your cycle. My NHS meno specialist also said there isn't large fluctuations like that (in the sense that blood tests are rendered pointless). If your levels fluctuated giganticly day to day your body wouldn't know when to ovulate or have a period etc.

[CrispyChick]

Thanks Gilla.

That's useful to know. Good to hear a other opinion on testing. Like I say, despite the shock, this blood test has been kind of reassuring in a sense since it explains why I feel so dire.

Estrogen - did I say weeks? My mistake if I did. I only tried estrogen 2 years ago. There is definitely 1000% no chance of estrogen contamination with me 

Just out of interest gilla - what are your levels when you feel good? I know you've said before.

Also - I know you were trying to increase prog to better balance your estrogen. How are you getting on?

[Mary G]

Crispy, this is just a thought but my migraine specialist initially suggested I try escitaopram but it was a complete disaster within the first week.   It caused restless legs and far from preventing migraine aura, it actually caused them.

I know you are not a migraine sufferer but I wonder if there might be a better AD for you to try?

I'm finding that amitriptyline is a really good regulator at a low dose.

[CrispyChick]

Thanks Mary.

Are u saying the escitslopram may be contributing to my problems?? I'm only on 5mg.

My gp actually had me increase the escitalopram a few years ago - to try and tackle all this. Funnily ebough, it didnt work. I'm very sensitive and it was hellish.

To be honest, I don't think I need it at all. But I'm just not prepared to rock that boat at the moment.

Im not planning on trying another AD as I'm 99% sure the majority of my issues are hornonal. Certainly, mood wise, since increasing my prog, my moods have levelled out.

Im glad you found something to work. It's such a long process of trial and lots of error. Xx

[Gilla999]

Crispy you probably did say years.... blame my Menopause brain 

That's a difficult question to answer for sure but generally I would say 700-800 pmol (luteal phase). However I do still have an ongoing question around whether that is simply the level my body has gotten used to because I've pumped it full of HRT, vs the actual level I need, if that makes sense? This is purely because I don't understand how HRT can have caused me to gain 1.5 stone in weight rapidly (plus constipation) if that was the "right" level my body needed.

If there's no chance of E contamination then that is an awfully high E reading and at least explains why you've been feeling SO dreadful??

No news on my front really... tried increasing the Cyclogest to 2/3 of a pessary twice a day and was ok for about 5 days but had my insomnia the last couple of nights, which may or may not be related. I've dropped back to half a pessary (100mg) twice a day anyway and as that's the level I seem to be able to tolerate well I'll probably switch back to Utro now as it's less faff having to cut something in half.

So what's your plan now? xx

[Mary G]

Crispy, I was also taking 5mg escitalopram and it made me feel really terrible.   Obviously everyone reacts very differently to medication but if you happen to react very badly to escitalopram, it is going to have a drag effect and make your overall symptoms seem much worse.   I noticed that it has a very narrow band of dosage ie 5mg to 20mg think.  Escitalopram is prescribed mostly for depression but it is often used to treat (or perhaps I should say mask) menopause symptoms which is rather strange because I found it caused excess sweating and made me feel 'tinny' and' hollow' sorry, it's difficult to describe!

Amitriptyline treats a wider range of conditions and works in a different way ie it's an old fashioned TCA.  The dosage range is huge (10mg - 200mg I think) and it is not only used to treat depression.  At lower doses it acts as a kind of body regulator and successfully treats IBS-C, prevents all types of migraine, relieves pain and as an added bonus I have found it regulates spiking blood pressure.   Even at lower doses, it can help borderline anxiety and depression but I was initially attracted to it because it works particularly well on cortical spreading depression (CSD) which causes my migraine auras - in some people, CSD can cause odd muscle twitches, numbness, crashing mood, sudden extreme fatigue and weird creeping body sensations.

I deeply regret allowing myself to being scared off ADs.  I didn't realise that at a low dose, they prevent migraines and so much more.

[CrispyChick]

Thank you ladies. I will have a good think about all this.

One thing is certain - my estrogen is sky high and im feeling dreadful. I am most definitely worse since starting the prog. I also take testosterone avd dhea - it's possible they are converting to estrogen.

Mary, I just don't think it can be the escitalopram as I was fine on it when on the pill. When I tried to increase it a few years back, it certainly made me feel bad, so I went back down. It was a different bad feeling. It's only since coming off the pill and turning 40 that all my shenanigans began...and I'm pretty sure it's the hormones.

[Floo36]

Good luck Crispychick with working it all out.  Please don’t dismiss that the high reading was just a spike as some of us do throw out massive spikes in Estrogen but they are not that level all of the time, once in meno the chaos should start to settle, that’s when bloods may be more useful.  I can only share my own experience.

[CrispyChick]

Floo. Yip. I hear you. My estrogen levels have been normal previously. That said, I'm at my worst and I've now come to know that when my estrogen is highest - this result backs that  up.

Unfortunately, here in the UK, if I was to go on symptoms alone, i'd be given estrogen. I have been given estrogen. This compounds my problem. I do think, like gilla, testing has a place when we're not classic low estrogen.

Im speaking to my clinic today. Will update later ladies x