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[Molly]

Hi girls,

I have started a helath kick nd have cut out crisps chocolate and alot od carbs. I am also doing intermitting fasting where I only eat between 10am in the morning till 6pm at night. However I have noticed I am not sleeping at night and all day sweats are back, just like my days pre HRT.

Does anyone know if there is a correlation ?

Thanks x

[joziel]

Some people might say your body is detoxing.

I never eat after about 5pm and I can only sleep well on an empty stomach so I am totally used to this now, but I do know that when first adjusting, you can feel a bit 'wired' at night. This is because your body is probably going into ketosis (which is healthy and great) and burning ketones instead of sugar. Alternatively, you might be experiencing low blood sugar levels as you make the transition. You will get used to the new way of being and this feeling should wear off if you keep going.

[Gnatty]

This is very interesting. I have noticed that I don't do very well any more if I get hungry. So not sure if I could do much fasting! Likewise I feel I need a few carbs. Do let us know if it all settles Molly.

[CLKD]

I was advised completely the opposite by NAPS: to eat every 3 hours, 24/7 to keep blood sugars even to avoid any anxiety surges.  Some advise not to eat after 8.00 p.m. to allow the gut to work, we are designed to digest during sleep.  Certainly I can't sleep if my body is hungry.

We are hunter gatherers, not designed to fast unless we haven't caught anything ;-).  That is, unless the menfolk come home empty handed    cutting out crisps and processed foods even cheeses is healthy, chocolate is full of minerals ;-). 

[joziel]

Actually modern science tells us the exact opposite.

Hunter gathers fasted naturally, in between feasting - it was hard to hunt and to get enough food and there would be periods without much available. There would also be a glut of fruits and food in summers and then not much at all available during winters.

The problems with weight and obesity these days are caused by people driving their insulin up constantly all the time through frequent snacking and eating and not enough fasting.

See the Zoe Science and Nutrition podcast for an accessible introduction to modern best practices.

[sheila99]

We've been round this cycle many, many times before. Eggs are bad, one a week max, oops, eggs are good. Butter is bad, eat marg, oops, butter is better, it isn't stuffed full of chemicals, eat no fat, no, we need fat etc etc. Whatever the latest fad is in 10 years time we'll be back to being told to eat a healthy, balanced diet.

If your body is reacting that way imo it is unlikely to be beneficial to your health. Perhaps you'd feel better if you ate the same amount but spread it out a bit more. If I try do hard physical work before I've had breakfast I come close to flaking out.

[CLKD]

Same here sheila.  I could never go without breakfast however bad anxiety hits.

It's not snacking per se but what people snack on.  One looks in shopping trollies then at the person pushing it .......  when well, I allow myself 1 stick of chocolate for pudding.  I've cut out shop-bought cakes etc. as they made me feel sluggish and ill.  We've always eaten a lot of fruits and veg., in fact I prefer cauliflower and cabbage raw rather than boiled to nothingness.  Sprouts anyone?

Slow release food stuffs can help over all.  However I go off foods ......... 

Everyone is on a diet of some kind 

Between 1942 and the early 1960s, the British were the healthiest ever.  Very little sugar.  Eating meat/2 veg.  No petrol so cycling or walking.  Even when War had finished, Dads had the vehicle to get to work ......... Stodgy puddings to fill up the body especially for those working on the land, in hot furnace situations etc.. 

[CLKD]

Diabetes UK:

Ketosis is a natural state the body finds itself in when it is using fat as its main fuel. This occurs when following a very low carb, ketogenic diet, and often during intermittent fasting too.

Ketosis can be beneficial for a number of people but there are certain groups, such as people with type 1 diabetes, that need to be more careful. In these groups, very high ketone levels would lead to diabetic ketoacidosis, a dangerous situation caused by a lack of sufficient insulin.

What is nutritional ketosis?
Ketosis is a state the body goes into if it needs to break down body fat for energy. The state is marked by raised levels of ketones in the blood which can be used by the body as fuel.

Ketones which are not used for fuel are excreted out of the body via the kidneys and the urine.

Is ketosis the same as ketoacidosis?

Nutritional ketosis occurs when there is not enough carbohydrate in the diet to meet the body’s energy requirements. In this situation, the body switches over from burning sugar to burning fat as its main fuel.

Fat, whether from the diet or the body’s stores, is broken down into ketones in the liver. These ketones are an efficient energy source for many organs, particularly the brain.

Everyone has ketones in their blood at very low levels, under normal conditions. When the body enters ketosis, and so switches to burning mostly fat, levels of ketones in the blood increase.

[CLKD]

Molly - what time to you get out of bed each morning and how do you feel?

MayB keeping a diary to chart progress?  Then let us know how you get on. 

Not eating regularly causes anxiety.  Anxiety causes me to stop eating completely .........  . Aged nearly 70.

[Haydo]

I was advised to cut right down on carbs and to do intermittent fasting (I don’t eat between 6pm and 10am) when I was diagnosed as pre diabetic.  I have lost weight without trying, feel much healthier for it and have got my blood sugar levels out of the pre diabetic range.  You soon get used to it, and basically it is just delaying your breakfast for a couple of hours.  I never feel hungry anymore.  I did notice though, that when I first started doing it that it was like a detox, headaches, sweats etc, but after a while it all settled down.  I agree with Joziel in what she says about low blood sugar levels and ketosis.    It was just my body getting used to it.

[joziel]

Exactly Haydo, you are on the right path. Unfortunately some people commenting above haven't got the memo yet.

Science is now in pretty good agreement about what is 'healthy' eating. There are still some areas of debate and some fanatics, but there is now massive agreement on the most important subjects. Characterising it as 'no one can agree, therefore don't listen to anyone' is a bit ridiculous frankly.

I mean, imagine if you applied that to HRT - what would be the point of this group? There are still massive areas of debate and more research needed but we know that hormones are important and useful and preventative of future disease now. We didn't know that 10 years ago, or perhaps when this forum started (whenever that was).

If we don't update our knowledge and move with the latest developments, no forward progress is made. We would all be left thinking HRT causes breast cancer and should never be taken.

The subject of nutrition is the same. It is NOT good for your health to eat throughout the day. Your blood sugar and insulin levels should not be high constantly, that is where insulin resistance starts and pre-diabetes. Your gut needs to rest sometimes and not be constantly processing food through constant snacking - and stopping sugar and carbs can be tough to begin with, because they are addictive.

And if you can't exercise without eating, then you're not very fat-adapted or nutritionally flexible. Being nutritionally flexible means you can switch easily between fat (ketones) and sugar for energy. That is optimal. If you haven't eaten overnight and you are working out, you are burning your fat stores (ketones). If you can't do that without feeling like you're going to collapse, it means you can't burn fat - you are a sugar-burner and nutritionally inflexible.

There is a lot more information on all this on many podcasts and blogs and websites. It's all so well known now, it's strange to find people who haven't heard about it....

[Haydo]

I was advised to do the intermittent fasting by my GP, who has a special interest in diabetes;  the NHS pre diabetes course that I attended and a private nutritionist.   I’ve also read the 8 week blood sugar diet by Dr Michael Mosley and The Diabetes Code by Dr Jason Fung, together with loads of podcasts and websites.  I realise now that I knew very little before I was diagnosed with pre diabetes.  I had always eaten what I considered to be healthily;  wholemeal bread, pasta and rice, very little sugar or processed foods but I was eating too many carbs and also had it in my head that if I didn’t eat breakfast I would faint, as I was told that when I was growing up.  The way that I was eating was too much for my liver and pancreas and it was interfering with my insulin production.  Evidently a third of adults in the UK have raised blood sugar levels and don’t know it. 

As long as I drink when I get up, I have a mug of hot water with lemon juice and then a black coffee or two,   once I got used to it I was fine.   Sometimes I don’t feel hungry at 10 am and will skip breakfast and have an early lunch at 12 pm.    All I know is that I wanted to do everything I could to avoid diabetes and it has worked so far.    I initially went to the doctor as I felt exhausted all the time and the pre diabetes was discovered through the blood tests that were done.  I no longer feel the exhaustion that I had been feeling for so long, and I was told by my GP that if I hadn’t done what I have done that I would be diabetic by now. 

[Molly]

Thank you all girls  for taking the time to reply and you all have very good points.

I am 5ft 3 and my weight crept up to10 stone about 8 years ago. So decided to do I.F. I lost 2 stone quiet easily and never felt so fantastic in my life. I had boundless energy, cognitively felt great, slept like a baby etc. Since covid my weight has crept up along with going on HRT. So to be honest the intermitting fasting for me is a great way to loose weight and heal your body from high chlorestral and the list goes on.

I guess my issue is now that I am on HRT and attempting this diet it seems to be playing havoc with my hormones. This is my 2nd attempt in a few months to try I.F and straight away my menopause symptoms return, awake all night, sweats .

So Im just wondering if anyone has any knowlege of Oestrogen balance being affected by fasting. x

[ElkWarning]

Everything that Joziel and Haydo are saying. I'd been piling on the weight for a while. Thought I was eating ok. Hadn't realised the effect of that daily baguette for lunch at work. Literally within days of switching my work environment (so no access to baguette) I began to lose weight. A couple of weeks later and blood tests showed high blood sugar (pre-diabetes). I was shocked, because I don't have a particularly sweet tooth. I realised it was the carbs. Very recently I started to work out a few times a week at the gym and delayed breakfast. I began to feel even better. Now I've also cut out grazing/snacking ...

As someone notes above, it's a bit like a detox. I hadn't realised that carbs were basically sugar, or the extent of my 'addiction'. I've had a few sweats, about 10 days of really rubbish sleep, some periods of feeling like I need to prioritise my self-care. I figure it's a big change.

Very encouraging to read of your result, Haydo. That's where I hope to get to.

@ Molly, I can't really speak to that because I'm through the menopause and can't take HRT (it created more problems than it solved for me). Have you tried Calms (valerian) or Nytol (anti-histamine)? Maybe to get over the hump?

[Haydo]

I’m afraid I can’t help with the HRT/oestrogen question either, as I am post-menopause too and not able to take HRT.  Maybe Joziel has some advice when she comes back on, as I believe she takes HRT.