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[Gnatty]

Molly that was the point I was trying to make too but maybe badly. I used to do the Intermittent Fasting and also 5:2 diet. But it doesn't seem to suit me so much now since HRT. I'll give it another go tho!

[Tora]

I’m the same Gnatty, I need 3 meals a day otherwise my performance goes downhill. I never used to need breakfast.

Huge low carb supporter here.

Molly it’s common to get sleep disturbance when you first drop carbs, it didn’t happen to me but my doc warned me about it.

I’ve worn a CGM for 6 months, I 100% know that low carb eating reduces blood sugar and shifts water retention.

[Molly]

thank you lovely girlies for the replies.

I will park it for the moment and see if I can get my sleep back and maybe try it slowly in a couple of weeks starting with maybe a 12 hour fast instead of 16...oh the joys of aging hahaha x

[hereandthere]

Just to add my 10 cents worth I tried to research hormone interplay when I started on IF (October 2019) but didn’t find much, although there’s known to be the potential for hormone disruption.
I did however find the most caution for YOUNG women, with the suggestion to stick to 16/8 and not the more extreme versions of IF. There was less concern and more benefits it seemed for post menopausal women.
I started doing it because I came across not one but two neuroscientists who likened Alzheimers (which my mother has and it has a genetic link) to type 2 diabetes and were both doing IF to reverse insulin resistance etc.
As CLKD says, this is not to say that type 1 diabetics should do it or at the least would need to exercise extreme care, as there are safety concerns.
We only have long term studies in rats, so who knows if one day the advice changes. I’m prepared for that- it just seems like best evidence at the moment. Some people do keto and IF to maximize the benefits, but that’s a bit beyond me. 😵‍💫
I have had hot flushes for more than 10 years. HRT reduced but did not eliminate them. I went off systemic HRT due to a possible link with atypical hyperplasia of the breast, discovered in 2021.  My hot flushes immediately came back with a vengeance. 
I am still doing IF, but as I didn’t do it before the hot flushes, I can’t say whether it’s worse due to the IF.

[Hurdity]

I have read this thread with interest, as someone who at times struggles with blood sugar but has learnt to get to know my body and what it needs.

The first thing I would say is that the benefits of healthy eating – as Sheila says “being told to eat a healthy, balanced diet” cannot be overstated. Irrespective of any eating patterns, this is a current recommendation that applies to the entre population, full stop. And this means cutting out added sugars, added fats and refined carbs. If we all did this (very difficult!)  we would all feel a whole lot better and be much healthier and slimmer!

Second – any form of intermittent fasting cannot be a blanket regime of eating patterns universally applicable. More than anything else our bodies are so different in terms of blood sugar regulation – even if we were all to give up extra sugars, refined carbs etc.

Women differ from men - and in fact the Zoe nutrition study says as much:

“Intermittent fasting affects men and women differently”.

“There are possible risks for women to consider around reproductive health, bone health, and overall well-being”

“Women may need to take a more gradual approach in order to reduce possible negative side effects on reproductive health, bone health, and overall well-being.”

https://joinzoe.com/learn/intermittent-fasting-for-women

Crucially the hormone progesterone has different effects on blood sugar than oestrogen (from memory increases blood sugar levels in the body - as part of pregnancy) and changes in progesterone also affect blood sugar levels – hence that sugar craving and associated symptoms many women experience during the second half of their menstrual cycle. Similar and more dramatic hormonal changes occur during peri-menopause – also affecting blood sugar levels.

Therefore it is wise to be cautious when approaching intermittent fasting – and in fact the term was initially coined, as far as I recall for the “alternate day fasting” regime, later with the addition of the 5:2 diet, and finally to the fasting window – which is really not intermittent fasting, in my book, but as defined here in the Zoe website:
“Time-restricted plans separate eating and fasting into two windows, or cycles, within 1 day. The idea is to extend the fasting window that already happens when you’re sleeping. “ ie extending the natural fasting window that we all already experience.

As someone who has suffered from what is now termed “reactive hypoglycaemia) throughout my life– ie the same symptoms of extreme low blood sugar experienced by diabetics, I have learnt what my body needs especially if I am taking exercise – and for me that means a very good breakfast – but which can be delayed (eg until 10 am) but must be taken before any exercise etc etc. We will all have our own “hungry” times.

So if I was attending an exercise class at 9 am – there is no way I could keep to an 8 hour fasting window – I would need to eat my big breakfast by 8 am – and we will all have our own routines.

So our eating patterns (and of course total calorie intake) must reflect our gender, our reproductive life stage, our diet, and our exercise regime.

Also – noting the Zoe comment above “Women may need to take a more gradual approach …” and a comment on the thread that reducing sugar and carbs at the same time as introducing the longer fasting window caused unpleasant effects – to me it would be preferable FIRST to attend to your diet BEFORE changing your eating patterns and extending your fasting window: ie reduce sugars, reduce refined carbs reduce extra fats and overall aim to reduce total carbs. Maintain the same eating patterns – and then once your body has acclimatised to this ( and your insulin levels and response will take time to adjust), start to extend the fasting window – and then your body hopefully will not react so badly. Also be prepared to adjust it according to your exercise pattern. There is no point getting to the stage where you are feeling rough due to your current hormonal state!

As for snacking –

Joziel: “It is NOT good for your health to eat throughout the day. Your blood sugar and insulin levels should not be high constantly, that is where insulin resistance starts and pre-diabetes. Your gut needs to rest sometimes and not be constantly processing food through constant snacking - and stopping sugar and carbs can be tough to begin with, because they are addictive.”

CLKD “It's not snacking per se but what people snack on.”.

Exactly. I agree we need to cut out added sugar and refined carbs and maybe reduce carbs (depending on our diets) but eating carrots and cottage cheese etc is not going to play havoc with your insulin levels etc. Some women’s metabolism (and hormonal state) may require more frequent eating even when insulin levels and response have stabilised overall.

However in principle I think it’s a great idea!

Finally:

Joziel: “There is a lot more information on all this on many podcasts and blogs and websites. It's all so well known now, it's strange to find people who haven't heard about it....”

Thanks for telling us that there is so much information around – some links to blogs and websites would be helpful. There is no shame in not knowing about these, and we all have different interests, so it is not at all strange. We are here to learn and share and we all have varying amounts of knowledge…

Molly I wish you all the best in achieving the desired result - and do let us know how you get on

Bit of a ramble....hope it helps!

Hurdity x

[Molly]

Thank you girls again for your replies xxxx

I was at the doctor today to get bloods done and mentioned it to him, he said its the blood sugar levels being affected.

So ive decided to keep up my normal diet of healthy foods without rubbish, crisps choclate and icecream  and let my body get use to that, I can always try a refined version of the 16/8 IF diet in time. My sleep means too much to me with 3 little men to tend you!

Thanks again girls x

I do believ the middle age spread is a real thing 

[CLKD]

GP on a Sunday, whoops Bank Holiday Monday even 

Years ago my apron dropped [middle aged spread] - so although I haven't put weight on, I look fat from above.  On the bed, flat, my belly is absolutely OK 

[sheila99]

And if you can't exercise without eating, then you're not very fat-adapted or nutritionally flexible. Being nutritionally flexible means you can switch easily between fat (ketones) and sugar for energy. That is optimal. If you haven't eaten overnight and you are working out, you are burning your fat stores (ketones). If you can't do that without feeling like you're going to collapse, it means you can't burn fat - you are a sugar-burner and nutritionally inflexible.

Hopefully you will have learned something from Hurdity's thoughtful post. As your comment above seems to be directed at me perhaps I can add to your learning. As stated I can't do hard physical work in the morning without breakfast. But I can have lunch at 1pm, a biscuit at 4pm and still be haymaking at 2am the following day with no further nutrition (small bales, all done by hand and it's hard work). BIL has his dinner at 6pm but can't work beyond 10.30pm. So for us it seems to have more to do with body clock than the inability to burn fat.
  And just as an aside I was offended by your diagnosis of my 'condition' given you know nothing about my health, eating habits or lifestyle and I don't appreciate the inference that anyone who doesn't agree with you is either stupid or uneducated.

[laszla]

Good points Hurdity and Sheila.
I would add that the 'no carbs' dictate is not that straightforward.
My mother, sister and I eat pasta (white) nearly every night of the week and a little bread every day and have low-normal blood sugar levels and a low weight (if anything too low).
But we also eat generous amounts of vegetables, including fermented ones, fish, nuts, seeds, virgin olive oil and are physically active, ie. we have a fairly typical southern Italian diet (apart from the Korean fermented imports) which needs to be looked in its entirety rather than isolating single elements.

[CLKD]

Without chocolate buttons I wouldn't be alive  . From age 3 when I had my first panic attack chocolate sustained me.  As a recovering anorexic no way must I ignore my bodies needs, even though often I don't recognise hunger.  Hence the eating every 3 hours what ever I fancy, to stop that awful empty surge = nausea.

I love's roasted veggies hot or cold I does, when I'm well.  When ill I stick to safe foods which may not be 'heathly' but have kept me alive thus far. Usually chicken curry with either rice or naan breads.  Or Marmite on toast or Oxo cube crushed into hot water.

DH is the Chef here, I may have mentioned it    

No diet is worth feeling ill with ......... 

[ElkWarning]

And if you can't exercise without eating, then you're not very fat-adapted or nutritionally flexible. Being nutritionally flexible means you can switch easily between fat (ketones) and sugar for energy. That is optimal. If you haven't eaten overnight and you are working out, you are burning your fat stores (ketones). If you can't do that without feeling like you're going to collapse, it means you can't burn fat - you are a sugar-burner and nutritionally inflexible.

Hopefully you will have learned something from Hurdity's thoughtful post. As your comment above seems to be directed at me perhaps I can add to your learning. As stated I can't do hard physical work in the morning without breakfast. But I can have lunch at 1pm, a biscuit at 4pm and still be haymaking at 2am the following day with no further nutrition (small bales, all done by hand and it's hard work). BIL has his dinner at 6pm but can't work beyond 10.30pm. So for us it seems to have more to do with body clock than the inability to burn fat.
  And just as an aside I was offended by your diagnosis of my 'condition' given you know nothing about my health, eating habits or lifestyle and I don't appreciate the inference that anyone who doesn't agree with you is either stupid or uneducated.

Just as an aside, Joziel suggested the Zoe study on page 1, so good to see that you agree. You might like to consider why, in that context, you misconstrued her response.

[Gnatty]

I don't think that has anything to do with it ElkWarning. It was the post further on in the thread which has upset Sheila99 and to be honest I can totally see why. It was patronising to say the least!

[margherita]

Zero misconstruing on Sheila's part, those were really patronising comments as others here have rightly noted

[sheila99]

Just as an aside, Joziel suggested the Zoe study on page 1, so good to see that you agree. You might like to consider why, in that context, you misconstrued her response.

Well thanks for clearing that up. I've already been told I can't burn fat and I'm stupid so it's good to know you're able to tell me what I think!
Sorry, I know you're trying to stir things but this just made me laugh  .

[CLKD]

It also depends on what time of Life we are as to how the body deals with foods stuffs.