Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Marchlove]

That’s good news Joziel.

Who knows, now your own estrogen has kicked back in, you might not need so much Vagifem anyway.

[joziel]

Thanks Marchlove. Yes, I was thinking that too.

Something is definitely happening as I've been bleeding lightly for about a week now. No endo pain or cramps, just bleeding. Usually very slow and dark, sometimes a bit redder and fresher.

So I don't know if taking 200mg continuously is going to work. It's good that I don't have any endo pains but I think it might result in problematic breakthrough bleeding. Which doctors are going to hate and want to investigate. And I don't want to go back on synthetic progestins.

So I am considering going sequential with the utrogestan. This would be without estrogen added in (except my very own). So it would be like Lara Briden's cyclic progesterone therapy idea, taking it from day 14 for 2 weeks. I'm a little nervous the endo will start up again, that's my hesitation. But it was 'only' mild endo, it's not like I had adhesions everywhere or had it badly and the pain was never unbearable (except for the first 2 days of my period if I didn't take naproxen!). And even 2 weeks of the progesterone should really help, along with all the supplements Lara Briden recommends for endo (zinc, magnesium, berberine, NAC - I'm on them all!).

It would also give me a chance to see if the palps get better when I stop the utrogestan. I'm pretty sure the estrogen was the cause, since my blood pressure is now normal and I'm fine for most of the day now - so there's been a huge improvement... hmmm......

[Marchlove]

I think that makes great sense Joziel.
I’ve read both LB’s books and think she has a lot of good advice and information.
Do you know where you are in your cycle so you know when to break?

Careful with the Berberine, from memory LB said to only take it for a short period of time.
X

[Marchlove]

Why are you taking the Berberine Joziel, are you pre diabetic?

I just looked it up re palpitations and came across this, although other articles seem to suggest that it’s beneficial to the heart.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3722425/

[joziel]

Interesting. I’m taking berberine because Lara Briden recommends it for endo. But I wasn’t taking it when all this started. 🤷‍♀️ I guess it could be keeping this going somehow though…

I am following LB’s instructions to take 5 days a week for 8 wks then stop. I could try stopping the berberine for 10 days to see if it helps.

I don’t know where I am in my cycle and in fact im not sure I have one back yet 😂 I don’t know if I should keep taking utrogestan through this bleed until the next one starts and then stop it for 2 weeks to bleed? Or just stop whenever and then try to take it 14 days after day 1 of bleeding to try to sync up again. 🤔

[Marchlove]

It is probably suppressing your cycle so it’s difficult to know what to do.
I’m 14 years post menopause so not very up on all that now!
You could try a new thread perhaps to see what others suggest x

[joziel]

OMG Marchlove, I've just read that paper in more detail and it is VERY interesting for me!!

I did have to google a lot of cardio terms and try to translate cardio-gibberish-speak  but I think the gist of it (translated into normal English) is....

.... that there are some people who are "hypervagotonic" - which means that their vagus nerve relaxes quickly and deeply and they have a resting pulse of under 60bpm. (The benefit of it is that they can recover from stress very quickly.) But these people, when they take berberine (this is where my translation might be slightly dodgy) - which slows everything down and relaxes your cardio system even more - can end up with the heart freaking out that it's too slow and compensating by going into weird arrthymias. (Which I can't spell.)

WELL GUESS WHAT?? Yours truly has a resting pulse sitting at the kitchen table of about 55bpm when I'm awake. When I'm asleep (which is when the palps are happening now) it is probably even lower. (Can't say for sure because I'm asleep  ) MOREOVER, when I had just come around from the anaesthetic after my endo surgery, they were very concerned about my low pulse rate and monitored me very closely. (I think it was even slower after the anaesthetic, like 35-40bpm or something.) I've always known I have a slow pulse and I recover really fast after exercise too - I remember discovering that during a school PE lesson when we had to monitor ourselves 

I don't think berberine has caused ALL of this, because I only started it 3 weeks ago (I wrote it in my diary). But perhaps it is the reason I am not okay again, having stopped the estrogen now and having normal blood pressure now. Anyway, I will definitely stop it and we shall see. It sounds like the effects wear off quite quickly so if it is the berberine I should be okay in a few days...

Then I will be forever in your debt. I will have to explain some of this to the cardiac nurse calling me tomorrow as well  Maybe the appointment shouldn't be TOO soon, just so we know if this is going to work!

[Marchlove]

Gosh Joziel, I do so hope that this will prove to be causative factor, albeit perhaps not the original one.

Don’t jump the gun with it too much tomorrow with the cardiac nurse, coz remember she won’t have a clue what you’re talking about!

You can test the theory yourself by stopping it.
So, I think you should very much concentrate on issues other than tBerberine, that might be causing your palpitations.

Throw it in at the end.

Will read your last post in more detail tomorrow, looks like you’ve done a lot of work interpreting it all. Xx

[Marchlove]

Basically, what I’m saying, is don’t let them latch onto theBerberine as being a causative factor.
As you say, it started before, but it just might, be causing the continuation of it in some way.
If they latch onto it, it may let them off the hook and potentially not proceed with further checks that you probably need.
X

[joziel]

Right, I'm just going to draw their attention to my slow pulse and these other weird things in my history and I might just mention the berberine - by the time my appointment comes round, I'm sure I'll have had time to see if stopping berberine does the trick and I can then discount it. Even if all this stops miraculously in a few days, I still want to get checked out because something weird has gone on here and I especially want to talk to them about the estrogen and what happened there....

[Hurdity]

Hi there

Coming very late to this thread but just to make a couple of points re the main subject of the thread.

The comparison between oral dose of HRT and Vagifem is for no reason other than to convince people who are concerned about using it, that Vagifem is a very low dose. There is no scientific reason nor basis for this comparison. It just serves to give perspective.

The total amount of oestrogen in Vagifem in one vaginal tablet does not bear any relation to the amount absorbed in that all it is, is the amount in that tablet. As has been posted on here there are studies which show how much of the vagifem is absorbed into the system ON AVERAGE. Different women will vary in this.

These studies showed that in cases of vaginal atrophy, the higher dose (25 mcg twice weekly) can mean that some post-menopausal women's oestrogen levels go into the post-menopausal range initially - but once the tissues are plumped up with oestrogen, levels fall to within post-meno range, and on the 10 mcg dose levels always remained within range.

The studies also showed that for a large percentage of women, efficacy was achieved (ie it worked to alleviate VA) for the 10 mcg dose but that does leave the remainder for whom a higher dose would still be needed. Nevertheless it was on that basis (ie the statistical majority) that the dose was removed. I had thought it was for safety reasons (though jusitification for this is questionable) rather than commercial but my memory is hazy there!

It is very doubtful that, especially in women or are not post-menopausal and therefore have nigher natural oestrogen levels,  the tiny amount in vagifem is sufficient to cause additional sdie effects once the body has acclimatised and tissues are plumped up, though in post-menopausal women whose levels are low - this may happen in especially in sensitive women?

Re DHEA and Intrarosa somewhere in here I looked at the study in detail I think, and reported but not sure which thread. However here is a thread where the other threads are listed so you should be able to find somthing about how it works: https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,59814.msg840171.html#msg840171

For those who are interested and have the time I'll also bump it.

I realise the discussion has moved on joziel but hopefully the above might be of help to someone!

Hurdity x

[joziel]

Thanks Hurdity. I am back down to 2x weekly on Vagifem and Ovestin now, with liberal Olive and Bee, and just hoping that is enough for VA not to come back now my own estrogen is working again 

Still getting the palps    The cardio nurse I spoke to yesterday said that if it is "just" ectopic beats then it's not a problem health-wise - even if they are pretty constant - except if they are causing discomfort, anxiety, lack of sleep - then they would be treated symptomatically with drugs (ie beta blockers). I'm not a fan of just taking drugs especially if they are not needed for health but anyways, we're not there yet... I am now waiting for this Kardia device I ordered to arrive in the post, so I can record some ECGs and email them to her.

Meanwhile having discovered that workouts stop my palps, I am getting incredibly fit  In the shower, I'm finding muscles I didn't know existed when I wash myself