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[vintagefiend]

hello,

I wonder if anyone can help.
I'm currently using estradot patches (no prog as no womb)
i'm overhauling my lifestyle!
i've lost over 1.5 stone and exercise maybe 5/6 out of every 7 days.
i'm also eating less (though not draconian about it!)
previously very sedentary and stuffing my face at every opportunity.
it's slow, steady weight loss and i'm pleased with ongoing results.

as an aside, a huge reason for doing this is so that i can take testosterone at some point (i have no ovaries and desperately need it!). i absolutely cannot tolerate the smallest fraction of it while overweight and have realised i need to get fit in order to metabolise it better- was hoping i could take it and then get fit but no such thing as a free lunch!

that's all a preamble to my present issue: I sweat A LOT during my workouts. I had an operation years ago which means i actually sweat more on my abdomen, legs, lower back- possibly bottom (hard to tell)!!
i don't sweat as much on arms, face and hands.
i wear my patch on my abdomen, which gets very sweaty (sorry if a bit grim to read!)

i monitor my oestradiol privately.
it's dropping significantly and i could tell even without blood tests as niggling low oestrogen symptoms starting up.
so i've increased patch- over last few days.
when i replaced it yesterday, i could really feel the hit of oestrogen!
will this settle or could it be that my sweat is affecting the patch? will i be in constant yo-yo of oestrogen highs and lows! ie does sweat affect the patch?

i realise i could take estrogel on arms though do find changes in hrt types (and doses) very difficult but at least there's that option

also, does exercise itself affect oestrogen levels?/weight loss too- could it be these factors rather than the sweating?
don't mind if it is those factors as can figure out what suits hrt-wise, but just worried that the sweat is negating the patch? but then again, the patch doesnt come off- there must be sweat underneath but guess it just mingles with patch ingredients without affecting them?? hopefully!!

thank you for any help

[ATB]

Hi. As far as sweat goes, I’m very active and was pre perimenopause and wasn’t able to continue when I felt awful. So it wasn’t until I was on HRT, gel then patches, for about 3 months, before I could exercise as much as I used to and as intensely and sweat hasn’t affected my estrogen that I can tell. I also started testosterone, it was a month or so after that addition that I felt much more energy and could exercise intensely again- mine was quite low before. For me personally, just my observations, I feel testosterone made a noticeable difference to my weight. I wasn’t hugely overweight though, just maybe a dress size bigger than I used to be, so testosterone may affect you more if you have different body sizes I guess.
So many things affect estrogen and hormones in general, I think keeping a detailed diary of all this sort of thing can help you determine patterns and what makes you feel your best. It’s so different for all of us. It’s taken me a good 9 months of tinkering to get everything this far and I probably have a bit of tinkering to go! Oh and I put my patch at the top front part of my thighs.

[Gnatty]

Hi there Vintagefiend, long time no see! From what I have read on forums by people in surgical menopause it seems that those of us with no ovaries do notice that oestrogen seems to get gobbled up with exercise and I guess we don't have any other reserves to compensate. Those that notice it have experimented to good effect with adding in a little more on days they exercise. This is of course easy if you use oestrogel but I guess not so easy with patches. With you exercising so much I would think you need to up your dose and keep it that way. Whenever you increase you can expect a few dodgy days until your body gets used to the higher level.

[vintagefiend]

 
ATB-
Thank you for replying. it sounds as though you test the patch hard with exercise, so it's great to know that sweat doesn't seem to be an issue! oh i cannot wait to be able to use testosterone- very pleased to hear good things about it. i have a low shbg which means that when i take testosterone, it runs amok!! levels sky-high. almost sounds good but it's not. luckily i know what to do to be able to take T properly: diet/exercise. you're right about it being different for all of us and i think i'll always need to pay close attention to how i'm feeling because hrt requirements can change even on an individual level. pleased you're doing well- i like to hear good news

GNATTY
hello hello- lovely to hear from you! thank you as ever- it looks as though it's more likely to be a mix of exercise and the fact that i've just increased my patch that's causing "problems". i don't mind if that's the case- in fact, i see it as demonstrating that exercise is having a long overdue impact on my body i'll not worry about the sweat side of things for the time being- i guess if the patch stays on that's good enough! i think i would like to get on to estrogel eventually but find the swap so difficult- as you say, it offers a bit more control. for now, i just want to get healthy and get some damn testosterone in me  . i prob need to figure out how much exercise i'm going to do and stick with it- i'm at the enthusiastic stage but that may not be sustainable. i hope you're doing well

[ATB]

I’m actually about to test the patch swimming, I’m actually worried about it being affected and having symptoms again. I think because hormones and these HRT products are so sensitive we are understandably nervous of any changes and interruptions to what is working. I still think the first half of my cycle I need a touch more estrogen and just for those two weeks and overall I think I need more testosterone, my doctor agrees but we are still going to wait because I’ve just had a bunch of test, covid and reduction in my thyroid meds so slowly slowly with any more changes. Being able to exercise again like I used to made an enormous difference, to my moods, to how I feel about myself and this whole thing! It’s a really good sign you are motivated to exercise and you’re doing it so regularly so I hope you can quickly figure out the testosterone issues and resolve everything. I used to be on estrogel but I hated having to work around that with my exercise as I prefer to exercise mid to late morning but I didn’t like waiting till that time to apply the gel after a shower… and I was totally paranoid about touching my cats for hours later! It’s just lots of gel to rub in and faff about with for me.

[joziel]

vintage, body fat produces a weak type of estrogen called 'estrone'. So yes, as you lose fat, you will probably see reduced 'estrone' and it could reduce your estrogen levels.

But also if you are not yet fully menopausal, your own ovaries will make varying amounts of estrogen during peri-menopause. Sometimes it can peak really high and then drop away and it's these fluctuations in natural hormones which often cause symptoms.

As for the patch, if it's not coming off or sliding around, I don't think it would be affected.

PS - Even though you don't have a uterus, you may want to use some progesterone/utrogestan. Lara Briden writes a lot about its benefits for bones, mood, breast health (believes it reduces the risk of b/c) and also its effect on the metabolism. She has a great book called 'Hormone Repair Manual' you can get on Amazon. The belief is that we have 3 hormones and interpreting women as having one hormone is this kind of binary thing that evolved from men = testosterone and so women = estrogen. This then led to the other hormones not really being thought about properly and even today, progesterone is just thought about in terms of keeping the uterine lining thin and all its other effects on every other tissue is overlooked...

[vintagefiend]

good luck with the swimming, ATB-
I'm sure the patch will weather it- i went swimming a fair bit over one summer holiday week and my patch stayed dry and intact
exercise really does make a difference, doesnt it? i'm afraid i've had a teen and adult lifetime of zero exercise- i let things slide mentally, too with the menopause to a point where i couldnt face thinking about exercising even though i knew it would surely help!
i'm glad you're back into it- it should see you well through perimenopause!
i've had to discipline myself and initially just lost weight without doing exercise and now i'm doing both- but at my pace- have to be realistic!enjoy the swim

[ATB]

Thank you, and really, well done to you for committing to exercise when it wasn’t already a habit. When I started getting back into it I really couldn’t do much. My whole family did the Leslie sansone walking  videos with me during lockdown, we had such a laugh doing it! Her accent is funny. But I used to do marathons and boxing, all sorts, 2 hours a day 6 days a week. Very weird to start again with walking and even struggling to finish 30 minutes of that. Now it’s an easy warm up and I’m doing weights, HIIT etc only took a bit of testosterone and perseverance! Good news about your experience with patches & swimming too

[vintagefiend]

joziel,
thanks for all the info

that makes sense about the oestrogen in fat cells and it pleases me enormously that i must have lost enough fat for my levels to be affected!
i also think i'll stop fretting about the sweat situation unless the patch falls off.

re progesterone- it's a difficult one as i have always struggled with it- my own- and also when i tried it as part of hrt. but i can feel pretty ropey on oestrogen sometimes and i know i need that! i suppose there's always the option for me to try it at some point and the fact that i don't have a womb needn't prevent me.
i'm actually post menopause- have no ovaries but they were removed after menopause anyway. it's a pain as i thought i'd be "sorted" by now but one good thing about having hormone levels at zero is that you have a consistent baseline to work from!

[vintagefiend]

aw thanks for the encouragement, ATB-

 i found a large lady on youtube and i do her workout- needless to say, she's actually pretty fit by comparison!

i keep saying saying i'm overweight but actually i'm not now- BMI 24- so just about ok. but it's on the higher side of acceptable.

my twenties i was very slim but that was down to smoking and other nefarious activities!! so even when i was slim i reckon my hormones/internal mechanisms were in flux.
anyway, i honestly think that the level of exercise you've done up to this point will serve you so well and i'm truly grateful that i have finally got around to exercising myself