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[Blue Kingfisher]

Hi all,

I’ve been trying to get HRT to work for around 10 years now and it’s been a rollercoaster. It’s been complicated as I was diagnosed with Hashimoto’s (autoimmune version of hypothyroidism) at the same time so I’ve never known what is causing what symptoms.

I’m feeling better the less gel I apply and thinking of tailing off now pretty quickly. The last drop I made was to 2 pumps which I’ve been on for about one week now. I know logically this isn’t advised but I feel considerably better the less I use or if I skip a dose (even better). Am I being naive & this is to be expected (feeling initially better) and if I stop altogether I will pay for it in spades?

I feel terribly nauseas after applying the oestrogel and feel considerably worse 3-5 hours after application. How bad I feel just depends on how much gel I put on. I thought it was my thyroid medication causing the symptoms but I’ve experimented with timings & confirmed it’s the gel.

Today for example, I applied no gel in the morning & for the first time I didn’t have that awful nausea (even though I’d taken my thyroid medication as usual). I then applied one pump at 1pm and I can still feel the negative side effects although they are starting to wear off.

I never had the classical menopause symptoms thinking back, such as sweating, flushes before I started HRT. I mainly started it for fatigue which I now think could have just been my thyroid. I’m also older now, so 54 in spring…..so my not need HRT anymore anyway…..

Has anyone had any experiences like this? Either feeling better the less oestrogen you use or coming off HRT altogether?

[Nas]

Hi Kingfisher,
I’m in a similar situation, except I use a patch. I’m considering coming off HRT, simply because no matter what I use or how much, I never feel great!

My sleep is shot to pieces, with or without HRT, so I can’t see the point of taking it.

I guess only time will tell for you? If you stop using the gel, eventually your body will adjust and you can then decide what symptoms ( if any ) you are are prepared to put up with.


It’s all a waiting game i think. What puts me off coming off hrt altogether, is bladder issues. I absolutely loathe bladder problems and even with vagifem, the bladder goes a bit awol.

Best of luck 🤞

[CLKD]

Trial and Error.  Do U keep a mood/food/symptom diary?  MayB continue to ease off your regime to see how you feel?  You may not require anything other than the thyroid medication if your other hormones have evened out.

[Hurdity]

If you never had flushes and sweats and weren't on other meds that also can "mask" these like some anti-depressants, then it may well be that you won't experience adverse symptoms if you stop the gel.

As you say, if you are hypothyroid, then this would cause fatigue, and also very important to get this right before (or concurrently with) addressing menopause symptoms.

Sorry I can't remember how old you are but I know I've read some of your story but can't recall. The fact that you feel nauseous after applying the gel suggests maybe that you absorb it very quickly (does the nausea pass?). I'm sure you have tried these but have you used patches which don't deliver such a surge of oestrogen so quickly? Obviously we're all different but I have never ever experienced nausea using HRT for the past 15 years, though also never at high doses, and commencing in my mid 50's at late peri-menopause.

Agree with CLKD - yes keep a diary!

All the best

Hurdity x

PS Stopping HRT suddenly can cause a rebound of some symptoms or possibly get symptoms that you didn't get before. General advice is to reduce slowly so as not to shock your body?

[Kathleen]

Hello Blue Kingfisher

Like you I have had an unsatisfactory time with HRT over the last ten years. My last period was in 2010 and I was diagnosed with Hashimotos in 2019.  I need to check my diaries but I don't think Hashimotos made a huge difference as my Meno symptoms didn't change very much. I have had many of the physical symptoms come and go, some more extreme than others but unfortunately the emotional symptoms have continued.

I have been experimenting with reducing my gel as I found that I had the same issues no matter what level I was using. A consultant told me that 'less is more' so I began titrating my dose by squeezing out less gel from the Sandrena sachets that I use.
Symptoms remained about the same, ie not great but no worse however when I got down to a quarter of a 1mcg sachet I felt extremely tearful. This reminded me of the crying spells I had when I came off all HRT on 2019. I have now increased to a half a patch and, although my emotions are still up and down at least I am not quite so tearful. I also noticed the re appearances of VA but being back to half a sachet has resolved that Meno symptom.

I assume that your thyroid levels are regularly measured and are within the normal range.  I would be interested to know how you can identify thyroid problems from Meno ones. I just seem to feel rubbish generally lol.

If you feel better using less gel I think that is a good thing and if your symptoms return with a very low dose you can always increase again.

I hope this is helpful and wishing you well.

K.

[Peanut31]

Hi

When was the last time your thyroid you had your thyroid tested.

It could be that you’re not on the correct dosage of thyroid medication?

Can you access your thyroid results from your GP.

I speak from experience I have an underactive thyroid and Hashimotos too.

I monitor my own thyroid levels to check, as the GP just go by TSH levels are this is not correct. I’m a member of several thyroid forms and they helped get me back on track.

I’m peri menopausal and on HRT started back in June.

Best wishes
Peanut31

[Blue Kingfisher]

Thanks so much for all the replies everyone 

I’ve decided to stay on 2 pumps for a while longer and take the easing off approach. That way I can go down in dosage once I’ve been on the 2 pump dose for longer (ideally one month in total) and more clearly monitor if I feel better or worse after reducing.  I experience some mild night sweats occasionally but never did before I was on HRT but who knows what causes that. Could be menopause (I started HRT around age 43/44 and I’m now 53), could be the HRT, could be thyroid (adrenals).

Nas, what have you decided to do?

The nausea kicks in about 3 hours after applying oestrogel and clears 6 hours after application. I have to apply in the morning, I feel terrible in the mornings if applied the night before (even just one pump). I did try patches before but not for long, it’s definitely worth considering if the weaning off gel approach doesn’t work or I settle more comfortably on 2 pumps.

Kathleen it’s good to hear that you are finding less is more with HRT. Do you get on better with gel or a patch? I also find it difficult to know what symptoms are caused by thyroid & what by the menopause and I can’t separate them to be honest, it’s just a horrendous roller coaster that doesn’t seem to stop. I’ve been seriously suicidal but in a better place at the moment thank goodness!

Peanut, I also belong to a thyroid forum and get my thyroid tested via Medichecks. I tested a few months ago and my T3 was optimal but T4 too high (quite out of range). I reduced T4 for over 6 weeks, re-tested and it’s come down a bit but my T3 conversion has held steady (slight improvement actually which I’m relieved about). I’ve reduced my T4 again as a result (as still too high out of range) and will test again in a couple of months. My occasional night sweats and insomnia could improve as my T4 levels start to come down, this is what I am hoping for anyway!

One day I might get there but I think I will always be heading there to be honest! At least for another year or so anyway!

[Peanut31]

Hi

It’s good you know what you’re doing thyroid wise, at least you can rule this out.

Bloody menopausal never gives us a break.

Take care
Peanut31 xx

[CLKD]

I am unable to tolerate any medication that causes nausea 

[Blue Kingfisher]

I really think you might be onto something Hurdity when you cite I may be absorbing the gel too quickly and it’s this surge that causes the nausea…..

I thought about this last night and made a subsequent change: 1 pump on rising (6am), 1 pump six hours later (12 noon). This caused slight nausea but an improvement Vs 2 pumps in one go. I was also awake this morning from 3:30am but applying 1 pump at bedtime, I know from experience, does not work well for me for some reason. I always feel more rough in the morning & this gets worse when I apply the oestrogel in the morning. I think tonight I will try applying just half a pump at bedtime and see if that helps with the insomnia yet doesn’t send things to pot for me for the next day.

I will see how this goes and if goes well-ish it might be worth considering a low dosage patch (like you suggested Hurdity, so I get better sleep) but top up with 2 pumps gel in the day. What would be a patch that is equivalent to half a pump of oestrogel be I wonder? A 25mg patch cut in half? Do patches even come in 25mcg strength? I’m lost with patches 

I’d be lost without this forum and the amazing support and wisdom!

Thank you x