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[jessieblue]

Hi again ladies,  I have plucked up the courage to try vaginal oestrogen again after another run of UTIs.  I saw a lovely private GP who suggested I give it another try and she prescribed Blissel because she said this is quite gentle and I can start with just a tiny bit at a time and see.  Last time I tried vaginal oestrogen I had a flare up of thrush symptoms, very inflamed and sore tissue and a uti which seemed to come on from applying a little ovestin to the urethral opening which caused immediate irritation.  I tried a few times previously and had the same response each time.  I have awful health anxiety and so this scared me and I gave up.  I settled on multigyn which I use daily and coconut oil also daily.  This keeps me comfortable and I take D mannose daily too now.

Obviously if I can tolerate vaginal oestrogen it would help in so many ways, so I am hoping I can.  The GP said I may have to work through some inflammation while the tissue adjusts and plumps up, I guess this makes sense.  Does anyone have any advice or experience with Blissel?  It is a gel rather than a cream and seeing as I am ok with multiyn and vaginal moisturisers, I thought maybe this would be better.

I would love to overcome this hurdle and maybe help myself avoid UTIs in the future.  I have no physical relationship with my husband because of the fears of UTI and I don't know if that is beyond repair now, but it would give me a little hope.  To be honest I have such terrible anxiety I doubt we would have a physical relationship anyway.  I am always ill in some way with UTI or acid reflux, diarrhea or nausea.  Still any improvement would be better than none and might help my confidence.

Thanks for reading. xx

[Flossieteacake]

Hello jessieblue. As you are okay with vaginal moisturiser, maybe adding a little to the blissel before applying may help? That would dilute it a bit and ease you into it.

I can totally understand you feel anxious about trying it after you had such a bad reaction to other types. As this is more gentle there is every chance it will be okay.

[CLKD]

If the labia and vaginal skin is thin it will be sore.  I doubt if it was an UTI from applying 'ovestin'.  It might sting for a few nights but should have settled by night 4.

Have urine samples been sent to a Lab to be grown, no good having a repeated dip stick in the Surgery!!  Acid reflux can be eased by appropriate medication: as oestrogen levels drop muscles may become lax = aches and pains.  This includes the risk of hiatus hernia, common in ladies of a 'certain' age.  Hormone upheaval can cause your gut problems.  I find if VA is troublesome, my stomach feels 'off'.

Let us know how you get on. 

[jessieblue]

Thank you both for your replies.  I will try mixing it with a little moisturiser for sure and keep away from that area to begin with.  I did test positive for a uti at the doctors surgery.  I cannot remember if they grew any bugs that time, it was a few years ago, but I believe there were leuks and blood.  I just assumed that it caused inflammation which then allowed a bug to move in.  I know I had a week of antibiotics again.  Just recently I had 2 utis in 5 months and they were both confirmed by lab culture.  But I also get a lot of bladder/urethral irritation that settles down without treatment, so I know I have issues there.

The anxiey makes everything harder.  Whatever is wrong with me feels like a death sentence every time and I catastrophise automatically.  I am starting trauma therapy and CBT today.  I must get some help for this.

I have systemic HRT in the cupboard but I am too scared to take it.  I have heard of people having horrible side effects and I don't want to make things any worse, so thought I would try the vag oestrogen first again.

I will let you know how it goes. xx

[Flossieteacake]

Thank you both for your replies.  I will try mixing it with a little moisturiser for sure and keep away from that area to begin with.  I did test positive for a uti at the doctors surgery.  I cannot remember if they grew any bugs that time, it was a few years ago, but I believe there were leuks and blood.  I just assumed that it caused inflammation which then allowed a bug to move in.  I know I had a week of antibiotics again.  Just recently I had 2 utis in 5 months and they were both confirmed by lab culture.  But I also get a lot of bladder/urethral irritation that settles down without treatment, so I know I have issues there.

The anxiey makes everything harder.  Whatever is wrong with me feels like a death sentence every time and I catastrophise automatically.  I am starting trauma therapy and CBT today.  I must get some help for this.

I have systemic HRT in the cupboard but I am too scared to take it.  I have heard of people having horrible side effects and I don't want to make things any worse, so thought I would try the vag oestrogen first again.

I will let you know how it goes. xx

Vaginal atrophy can cause constant UTI's so it is good you are trying the Bissel. With the treatment, it is not strong and something that can be used daily. I found before I used anything, I was so sore to begin with. I think  it can be due to the skin being so raw.

You are very brave to be starting trauma therapy. It is not easy having to discuss and go through such painful things. I hope you can feel proud you are taking steps to heal.

Maybe you could just get used to the Bissel and not think of the HRT just yet. You can take things at a pace you feel comfortable with. Good luck with your appointment today.

[Dotty]

I use Blissel and it’s really easy to use and not messy or anything. xx

[joziel]

Ovestin has chlorhexidine in it which I think is why it can sting a bit, especially if you are sore there. Once you've healed a bit I think it stops stinging going by what I've heard from other women so it could be worth persevering with through some stinging at first.

You could try Vagifem so you have something inside for the vagina - that is less likely to cause thrush because it is a little tablet and not a cream with loads of emulsifiers and excipients - and then try different external creams.

Blissel is very low dose, so you would need more of it to give the same amount of estrogen as you would need with Ovestin. There is also Estriol cream, which I think is different to Blissel although not sure if Blissel is just the brand name for Estriol...!?

[CLKD]

VA won't cause UTIs ;-).  Vaginal atrophy mimics urine infection type-symptoms really really well.  Dipstick isn't the best way to diagnose a 'bug', a sample HAS to be grown in a Lab. to make sure that a) symptoms are a bug and b) that any treatment is appropriate.

Tnx joziel. 

jessieblue - stop reading what others suffer with.  Yep there maybe discomfort until the vaginal walls have become moist and soft.  Yep it may sting a bit because the tissues are thinning.  Good Luck with your therapy. 

[Jasmine20]

I also dilute Ovestin in some Olive & Bee ointment which is really soothing. I reacted very severely when I was doing a loading dose of Ovestin undiluted which caused lots of inflammation. It felt like I had a UTI at the time but I didn't.

I have found Imvaggis suppositories helpful as they're low dose and have fewer excipients. I mix and match with Vagifem and Ovestin.

[jessieblue]

Thanks for all your replies.

Yes Blissel is estriol in a gel rather than a cream.  Not very high dose though, but I would rather that.

CKLD it was a bit more than stinging a bit.  Without giving TMI I was so raw that I was sticking to my panties and could not even walk comfortably.  When I showed my husband ..... no shame I know .... he was quite taken aback.  I was cherry red raw down there.  Then another time, I developed the uti symptoms I had pain, urgency and was peeing myself unvoluntarily, so something definitely was amiss.  That was enough for me to abandon that plan and stick with what I knew.  I act6ually had 3 mona lisa laser treatments instead which helped I think, but have now worn off and my doctor that did it has retired.  I did have some horrible UTI's that were lab confirmed and I was referred to urologist and had cystoscopy US etc.  I was told I had a tight bladder neck and that it might need stretching.  Trying to avoid that as my GP said she had had it and it didn't help her at all.

I understand it that Vaginal atrophy can lead to UTIs because the ph is altered and the flora, leaving the area vulnerable to inflammation and therefore opportunistic bacteria to set up camp.  So I know it might not be the direct cause but I think it contributes.  Thats what I was told anyway.

I also have prolapses which can increase risk of UTIs because of difficulty emptying etc.  Its basically a big old mess down there.

Thank you for all your kind comments, I am taking all on board and hoping for some improvement.

[Flossieteacake]

Thanks for all your replies.

Yes Blissel is estriol in a gel rather than a cream.  Not very high dose though, but I would rather that.

CKLD it was a bit more than stinging a bit.  Without giving TMI I was so raw that I was sticking to my panties and could not even walk comfortably.  When I showed my husband ..... no shame I know .... he was quite taken aback.  I was cherry red raw down there.  Then another time, I developed the uti symptoms I had pain, urgency and was peeing myself unvoluntarily, so something definitely was amiss.  That was enough for me to abandon that plan and stick with what I knew.  I act6ually had 3 mona lisa laser treatments instead which helped I think, but have now worn off and my doctor that did it has retired.  I did have some horrible UTI's that were lab confirmed and I was referred to urologist and had cystoscopy US etc.  I was told I had a tight bladder neck and that it might need stretching.  Trying to avoid that as my GP said she had had it and it didn't help her at all.

I understand it that Vaginal atrophy can lead to UTIs because the ph is altered and the flora, leaving the area vulnerable to inflammation and therefore opportunistic bacteria to set up camp.  So I know it might not be the direct cause but I think it contributes.  Thats what I was told anyway.

I also have prolapses which can increase risk of UTIs because of difficulty emptying etc.  Its basically a big old mess down there.

Thank you for all your kind comments, I am taking all on board and hoping for some improvement.

I winced reading this. I am so sorry you had to go through this. It sounds total agony. I hope you never experience this again.

[jessieblue]

So do I flossieteacake.  I posted about it at the time and got some great advice about epsom salt sitz baths and stop taking meds like flucanazole and various creams and potions as I was doing.  It actually helped to calm it down by doing less and leaving it alone.  It was so miserable and that is why I am so fearful of doing anything that starts the cycle off again.  I will take it very slowly and one tiny step at a time.  I really hope I can tolerate it this time as need to end these utis somehow.

[CLKD]

OUCH!  nothing is too much info on here.  Without treatment some have to undergo surgical intervention to split the labia due to dryness.

Let us know how you get on with which ever route you take, you do need to keep the area moist = less itching.

[joziel]

I think the thing is that, if the skin is dry and cracking (you can't always see this, the cracks are microscopic) then the chlorhexidine in the Ovestin will really sting on those raw bits. Just like if you cut yourself, it can sting when you put antiseptic stuff on. And we have a lot of nerve-endings down there. In turn, that will then make it inflamed because it is sore and so on.

But the thing is that, in the long-term, the estrogen in the Ovestin is what you really need to fix the cracks and get things better again.

I reckon, try using an estrogen locally which doesn't have chlorhexidine in it - like the Blissel stuff - but apply 2x daily. And also use one of the oil-based natural moisturisers like Olive and Bee or YES OB and apply that over the top of the Blissel layer. This will cover the skin with a layer of oil-based stuff which will help stop it further drying out.

After you've done that 2x daily for at least a month, you could try using the Ovestin again because the cracks will hopefully have healed by then and so it won't sting and you'll benefit from the higher estrogen dose in the Ovestin.