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[Nas]

Karine, I’m totally with you when you question how Oestrogen can create so much emotional havoc to ones body and brain!

In all honesty, I have NO idea how a person is meant to strike a balance with HRT when it’s such a minefield!

Those women who experience few or no symptoms are extremely lucky! But for those of us who are suffering,  is this really it is now? Are we to spend our remaining years in hormonal hell?? Constantly trying this and that, just to feel well!

Muriel I do hope you feel better soon and the tablets kick in .
Which ones have you got? I’m going  to give sequential a shot I think,  as things can’t get much worse than they are already! Was your sister post meno or peri ?

Kathleen, I hope you strike lucky with the  sandrena. It’s so much trial and error isn’t it?

Have a nice day everyone 🌞 x

[Muriel]

Nas, I think the tablets will be generic estradiol so what ever they have in stock when I go to collect them on Tuesday though I’m fully prepared for all oestrogen to be out of stock and  to be sent to menopausal hell for evermore! 🥴

My sister didn’t know if she was peri or post as she’d had erratic bleeding for ages and it was just by chance as in clueless doctor that she was given sequential but now she’s stabilised and has a regular bleed which is very light so she’s happy 😊

[Kathleen]

Hello again ladies.

Nas - Why this journey has to be so difficult for some of us is a mystery and a cruel joke of nature in my opinion.

Your point about having to live with this turmoil is a good one because I have heard from medics and other women that the emotional symptoms are supposed to resolve over time. My trusty meno book even gives a time line and says that psychological symptoms fade by our mid sixties.

The trial and error approach is so frustrating and a bit worrying when you think we are left to tinker with powerful drugs in an unsupervised manner just to try and function.

We all deserve better and this forum is a life line to everyone who is struggling to cope and in need of support and guidance.

Wishing you well and take care.

K.

[Nas]

Kathleen, I don't know why some of us are destined to suffer this way.
It all seems very unfair and when so many women are apparantly sailing through this frankly horrific time of life, it doesn't make it any easier on us ladies who are just trying to get through the day, as best we can.

Most literature I have read, also talks about " gretting through the other side" and symtoms dying down. Well, I am on the 4th year of this now, aged 50 and it is showing no sign of letting up.

I totally agree re: your comment about being left to tinker with potentially powerful hormones. I have a box full of HRT and this is exactly what I am doing, tinkering! I was told at my last appointment, that it may be that I never find the right combination and this is where anti d's and such like take their place! Well, that may be the case and I can fully see why some  ladies succumb to them.

My mum has said that I need to push for a hysterectomy to deal with the bleeding, then I may stand a chance of just taking some oestrogen and hoping for the best. It does seem a bit drastic, but at my last hysteroscopy, the scan revealed my womb to be atrophied and in a poor way lining wise (very thin). I don't need it, so want it all out now. Wish me luck with that!

Muriel, I think the cyclical regime is worth a shot and I am going to give it a go I think.
I am glad it worked for your sister, that must be a relief.

xxx

[Kathleen]

Hello again Nas.

I have toyed with the idea of a hysterectomy but it seems unlikely that I will qualify for one and it is a bit drastic as you say. My other point is that even without a womb I had tender and then painful breasts when on high doses of Oestrogen and that can't be a good thing either.

I understand that Prof Studd's clinic say that Oestrogen levels of 800  are required to treat some aspects of the menopause including anxiety and depression, though how anyone is supposed to get that high without experiencing bleeding etc I don't know. Sad to say that I have been on this blooming journey longer that you and although I no longer have any physical symptoms ( probably thanks to my HRT) my emotional ups and downs are taking their toll. I have also been on an AD for years.

Next week I plan to print out all my correspondence from Newson Health which will include blood test results and look at my diaries so see how I was feeling at the time. From this I may get an idea of how I reacted to different levels of Oestrogen. I think my highest was 600 which I think caused bleeding but didn't resolve the jittery feelings. If I discover anything that may help others I will post on the forum.

Ladies in our position are highly motivated to sort this out and feel better. I also think of my daughter and I don't want her to have all these problems as well (she is pregnant now so her hormones are working in very different ways lol). Having said all that, shouldn't the so called experts be guiding us more effectively, perhaps especially the ones that we are paying a fortune!

In the meantime I will carry on titrating down my Oestrogen and testosterone as suggested by the NHS consultant that I spoke to just before I became a patient of NH.

Good luck with your cyclical regime and I hope that it helps you. At fifty you are a lot younger than me (I am sixty five) and I was still having natural periods until I was fifty four. If you can find a regime that works for you now you can stay on it for years to come.

Wishing you well and take care.

K.

[Muriel]

Hello ladies, reading with interest all of your experiences, just shows how individual we all are.

Nas, I’m a terrible tinkerer 🥴 I’ve also got a drawer with a selection of HRT, it’s all very well specialists saying give it time to settle, 3 months, 4 months SIX months but when we feel so crappy yet have to get on with life it’s difficult not to tinker, I’m now back on 125 Estradot plus 0.50 Sandrena and although my mood has lifted the hot flushes are off the chart, I refuse to settle for one or the other.
Since last year I’ve had post meno bleeding investigated, nothing suspicious so the gynaecologist says more oestrogen needed and also balanced with progesterone to stop bleeding that’s why I’m over the licensed dose.

Kathleen, when you were on 600 was your progesterone increased?

Also I don’t think we ever come out the other side, not in my family anyway ☺️
Two aunties in their 80’s and they are both still having hot flushes and one of them quite aggressive mood swings, they both regret stopping HRT but of course in those days no transdermal so now they suffer. 

[Nas]

Hi all, how are we doing?

Kathleen, you are right, these studies all quote differing oestrogen levels to help combat symptoms. Chelsea and Westminster do the same; a minimum of 250 for bone protection, 400-600 for depression and anxiety and so on. But as you say, how are we meant to reach those levels, without other things giving way?? To me, it's parallel with finding a needle in a hay stack!

I have a daughter too, althought only 17, she is totally freaked out by the possibility that she could end up like me in 30 years time! Keeps asking if this 'menopause lark is genetic"!

Are the anti d's not helping in any way with the emotional ups and downs Kathleen?

600 is quite a high reading, but I suppose nothing in comparison to our old pre menopausal levels, which would have been off the scale I am guessing. I think keeping a diary is an excellent idea and you may discover some useful things in the process. Sometimes I wonder whether we expect too much from HRT, in that we want it to fix EVERYTHING in an instant. I naively thought that was the case before I started tinkering with it and have been bitterly disappoined to date.

The 'experts' Mmmm. I am beginning to think they are not necessarily experts, but more individuals who for a small fortune, will allow us to tinker with higher than licensed doses of different products and hope for the best. I have seen two private specialists in 3 years. The second has come to the conclusion that I must be on the lowest dose possible, because of my BC history. Well, what if the lowest dose possible just isn't doing the job??

I am also beginning to think that my natural periods have returned. How am I going to know, other than coming off HRT for a good few months? Maybe the cyclical regime would give me an indication?

 Muriel, we are both tinkerers then! :-) I have visions of us looking inside our boxes, trying to decide which combination would work best for this week! You are on a good old whack of oestrogen, so I wonder why the flushes are still being so bothersome?? I too am sick of hearing the specialists say "give it 3/6 months" This is SO hard when tying to function day to day. SO many times, when I have not slept, I have been tempted to jack in work/go sick etc, but somehow, I have got up and made myself go in (even on zero sleep). I think if I had a more demanding job, with more hours, I would have been sacked by now for incompetence. It is also really frustrating because I need a higher paid job and yet I just can't right now, as hormones are so precarious. Being caught between a rock and a hard place comes to mind!

How much P do you take to oppose all the O? Is that the prime cause of post menopausal bleeding?
I only ask because I have had a ton of PMB since 2021 and it has been investigated on a number of occasions with two hysteroscopies which revealed nothing sinister, except a thin womb lining. I deperately want to be back on my 75 patch and utogestan, which I know keeps my bladder problems at bay and lifts my mood. But, it makes me bleed (unless it is real periods)
The coil keeps being mentioned, but as I seem to be so sensitive to hormones, it scares the pants of me!

I don't think we ever do come out the other side either. More learning to deal with the new normal!

I do hope you both have okay days today, whatever you are doing 

[KarineT]

I think these private menopause clinics want to make money, and they are not cheap, so they are willing to let you try anything as long as you pay for it.

[Nas]

I agree Karine.
They have cleverly recognized that NHS is so overwhelmed with women wanting help, that for a large fee, we can try what we like. That’s my interpretation. Aftercare seems sparse.

[Kathleen]

Hello again ladies.

After a better day yesterday I am full of the jitters again this morning!

My previous doctor at Newson Health was very confident that her suggestions would work but seemed lost for ideas when I didn't respond in the way she expected.

After my trial of Oestrogel only she began the appointment by saying ' I expect that you feel much better' and she was puzzled when I said that I didn't. The same thing happened with testosterone, initially she said that T was the missing ingredient and it would take six weeks to have an effect. At my next follow up when I reported no noticeable improvement she once again said I need to give it six weeks, forgetting that I had now been using T for twelve weeks. At one point she suggested that an AD might help and I needed to remind her that I already take Venlafaxine!

My frustration comes from feeling that my Dr wasn't really a meno expert at all, just a regular GP who had done a bit of training with NH on the various treatments available privately. She seemed surprised by some of my responses which unnerved me and if it wasn't for the ladies on this forum who regularly report similar problems I would believe I was a complete freak!

To be fair, there have been benefits in that I now use Sandrena gel which I prefer to Oestrogel and for the progesterone I use Cyclogest which is a pessary and seems to suit me well. I am also continuing with T which is Androfeme. 

Having said all that I will stay with NH for the time being as I have been referred to a different doctor for my next appointment in June.

I genuinely believe that all the clinics are trying to help women but sometimes their expertise is more limited than they think.

Take care ladies.

K.




 

[KarineT]

Hi everyone,

Basically, those who can't afford to go privately have to go without it and suffer.  It's totally wrong as far as I'm concerned. Even if the menopause is a natural phenomenon that every woman has to go through and not an illness, we all deserve to get appropriate help at a reasonable cost. I'm not saying that it should be completely free but these clinics charge in the region of £300 for a consultation plus all the follow ups & meds you have to pay for. This might sound negative to say this but my view is that they are all out there to make money out of misery.

[Nas]

I have to agree with you Karine. I’ve spent hundreds and I’m back to square one! All these treatments should be at a much reduced cost. Realistically how many women can afford to pay these fees?

Kathleen, sorry you aren’t feeling great today. I’ve had an awful day. First day back at work since the end of term and I’m grumpy, tired, teary and anti social. I can’t gather enthusiasm for anything and am finding it hard to get through the working day. Feel totally stuck!

I expect you know more than the ‘ experts’ at this stage. If you increase and increase and still don’t feel better, they are lost as to what to suggest next. This 6/8/12 weeks waiting, buys them more time in my view!

I think it takes a very skilled and knowledgeable individual to help a women out of the black hole of menopause!

Let’s hope your regime is the winning combination for you!! 🤞🤞🤞🤞

[Kathleen]

Hello again ladies.

Nas - Thank you for your kind words. I was thinking about you today and wondering how you would find going back to work.

I also feel that I have made little progress with my NH treatment. As you say they are so keen for you to increase and increase but even on a high dose I still had some ups and downs and then the bleeding etc started.

At my last appointment with Dr Boden I asked about other possible reasons for my problems because as a GP
I thought she might have an opinion and refer me to my own doctor but all she said was 'I only do the hormones'.  I got the impression that I was a hopeless case and that has added to my worries.

I also feel stuck and after a good day yesterday I am back to feeling jittery and tearful today.

One other thought, I think that you mentioned trying 75mcg patches again and I recall that ages ago when I used them  my mood was pretty good, it was only when the bleeding began that I had to return to 50mcg. If you are trying a long cycle that will accommodate any bleeds you may find this to be your winning formula.

Take care, good luck and keep posting.

K.

[Nas]

Hi Kathleen and everyone
You are not a lost cause Kathleen, far from it. It is just that we and many others, don't fit into the experts 'little boxes'. They probably don't know much more than us to be honest! At the end of the day, as you say, they are the gatekeepers to the box of medications. Hand over the dosh and you can have a little play! That is how interpet the whole experience anyway.

Are there any triggers to your feelings Kathleen? Have you much stress in your life right now? Worried about anything specific?
I just feel that maybe once we reach a certain point in our life, we are not longer able to juggle all the balls we were once able to?
I can cope with very little these days and I can't see that changing anytime soon! Anything new sends me into a tizz...

I do find the bleeding thing a minefield and think as you say, might try the sequential route next time, nothing to lose.
How did you feel in the 50mg patch? I am guessing it wasn't enough O, or the bleeding didn't settle?

Here's hoping for a better day for you tomorrow.
I will keep my fingers crossed that it is.

Nas xxx

[Kathleen]

Hello again ladies

Nas - Thank you for your vote of confidence lol!

I am fortunate in that I don't have any particular worries or stresses at the moment. Even with my unsettled moods I can have good days, or parts of days. which adds to my confusion because nothing has changed to cause a mood swing other than hormones.

It was some time ago that I was using the 50mcg patch, I don't recall any bleeding and it helped with the flushes but I still had the jittery feelings so I was told to try increasing to 75mcg.  I think I was doing okay but the higher dose caused bleeding so I was forced to reduce again.

Like you I am easily stressed but less so if I am having a good day, if only they would become the norm I would be a happy bunny!

I hope you see some improvements soon and wishing you well.

K.