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[Postmeno3]

Hi there,
I'm wondering if there are any postmenopausal ladies on systemic HRT who suffer from crashing fatigue despite their regime? Currently on two sprays of Lenzetto daily and now the daily pea-sized blob of Testogel this past week, I'm feeling quite disheartened by my increasing absence of stamina. I just wasn't like this a year ago when I began this journey and such very poor energy levels are affecting everything else? It's as if aspects of my M.E. condition are becoming exacerbated? Any insightful thoughts massively appreciated! (I appreciate it's very early days indeed for the testosterone.) Thank you in anticipation. 😊

[Hopeful]

Hi postmeno3
I am post meno and am on HRT I too am now suffering lack of energy and fatigue which I wasn’t before. My anxiety has gone but the lack of energy and muscle aches that have arrived in their place are getting me down. Hope to start testosterone soon so maybe that will help. You haven’t been on the testosterone  long so hopefully it will improve things for you soon.

[Dotty]

Hi exhaustion and total fatigue were terrible for me. I mean total exhaustion where I couldn’t do anything. Once I was on the correct dose of oestrogen the fatigue went. x

[Postmeno3]

Thank you, both. Good luck with the Testosterone, Hopeful and I understand how the bartering anxiety for fatigue and aching is difficult.
Dotty, that "total exhaustion" is where I'm finding myself increasingly as in whole days in bed! I haven't been this depleted since before HRT so the sense of going this far backwards is extremely hard to reconcile.
Thank you both again, very much appreciated!

[Marchlove]

Early days for the testosterone as you say and certainly estrogen dose is very much a fatigue and aches balancing act between that and anxiety.
I’m wondering how much it’s got to do with the time of day we take it?
For months now I’ve been taking my estrogen in the morning and progesterone at night and had minimal aches and fatigue but mild anxiety throughout the day.
So yesterday I thought why not try the estrogen in the evening. Slept ok but this morning I ache everywhere and energy is low.
Has anyone else noticed this?
Of course I’ve only done it for one day and might be a fluke. xx

[Postmeno3]

Marchlove, the concensus seems to be that oestrogen is stimulating so your reaction is interesting. I can't help with the progesterone side of things, sorry. I guess that combo itself is a juggling act! I'm used to many, many years of "post-exertional malaise" fatigue (exertion taking many forms, physical and mental) so I hope we can all find the route we each need to suffer it as little as possible, reasonably taking age and circumstances into account. 🤞

[Marchlove]

Yes it is interesting. I’m going to split my estrogen dose I think into morning and evening.
It must have something to do with the half life.
On a different aspect of it all Postmeno3, have you had your thyroid tested? Not just the TSH, but the full thyroid panel.
Might be worth investigating. x

[Postmeno3]

Thanks. Yes, all tested and apparently fine. It was one of the things the specialist did first. 👍 What I'm struggling to understand is how a "stimulating" hormone can feel increasingly depleting the more I take! 🤔

[Marchlove]

Another thought is your adrenal  cortisol levels. Have you ever tested?.
ZRT do a saliva (4 times a day) test combined with testing Dhea in saliva.
I recently did the test and discovered that although my cortisol was high in the morning it dipped too sharply after lunch which explained my afternoon fatigue. In the evening it was ok reducing as it should before bed to low levels.
I’ve just started taking Thorne Adrenal Cortex at lunchtime to try and overcome this afternoon dip.
If you find this is your problem have a read of the Thorne Adrenal Cortex reviews which give good indications of dosage.
If your fatigue is due to low cortisol no amount of estrogen will help with this issue!
Unfortunately this is something your GP won’t be able to help you with, as they only recognise outright Addisons as a condition rather than adrenal insufficiency.  x

[Postmeno3]

Thank you. Are you in the UK? This is exactly where my thoughts have been turning. Yes, I understand the whole adrenal relationship with hormones and how they are produced there instead of the ovaries, both post hysterectomy and postmenopause. I tick both those boxes. I worry that throwing more oestrogen at my adrenals is going to get them even further on alert and what a hugely under-researched area this is! I also understand that adrenal fatigue is not recognised until it gets to (near fatal, in some instances) Addison's which is pretty outrageous. I've tested by the saliva route before (again, not conventionally recognised and, certainly NHS testing by bloods gets us back in the vagueness of "normal ranges"). Who supports you with your regime? I'm not sure I would feel confident about addressing and monitoring this myself. Feel free to PM. Thank you.

[Marchlove]

Hi Postmeno3
Yes I am in the uk.
Yes I will try and PM you but don’t know how to do it! So might take awhile!
I’m mindful of ladies on MM who might be having ongoing fatigue issues despite being on hrt, but might not be able to afford private support. In which case I would encourage people to do their own cortisol saliva testing just to be sure that is not an issue. It’s common in the US for folk to do their own Cortisol testing and also address it themselves after appropriate research.
Of course also appropriate thyroid testing as a first option.
xx

[Postmeno3]

Yes, I'm aware how much more advanced/prioritising the US and other countries are in terms of adrenal insufficiency/fatigue and how much more willingness and research goes on elsewhere. I've been a patient with Dr. Sarah Myhill in the past. She speaks of the adrenals being the engine of the car and that is, in a renewed way, making an awful lot of sense to me. She seems not so keen on HRT as a solution. I've PM'd you to make it easier for you. 😊

[Suzysheep]

Sorry, I’m not on HRT anymore, but I’m suffering from crashing fatigue since I came off it and had a breakdown in the summer.
Adrenal fatigue has been mentioned to me before…. Do you know what can cause it? I wonder if my extreme level of prolonged anxiety would have any affect on adrenaline?

[Postmeno3]

100%! It's the adrenal glands and the hormones produced there having to work too hard and ultimately beyond their capacity in my case anyway. 🌹

[Marchlove]

Hi Suzysheep,
Severe stress and anxiety  can cause adrenal fatigue. To begin with your body pumps out lots of cortisol to combat the stress but over time the system gets overwhelmed. As a result of which your cortisol output can become erratic and not follow the correct circadian rhythm of higher cortisol when you wake with a gradual reduction throughout the day until bedtime.
You cannot tell by symptoms alone as they are unfortunately the same if you have high or low cortisol. The only way to know is to test.
There is a very good book called ‘Stop the thyroid madness’ which although it is primarily about treating thyroid disorders it has some excellent chapters in it about adrenal fatigue and how to treat it.
I highly recommend this book as it deals with both issues. xx