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[Postmeno3]

Hi there,
I'm just wondering if anyone has any experience of this? The longer I am on this lowest dose oestrogen (prog not needed), the worse my motivation becomes. It is almost as if it is exacerbating that malaise aspect of my M.E.? Is that possible? I know Dr. Newson attributes it, quite specifically, to low testosterone but I wonder if the oestrogen is in some way compromising my testosterone levels, too, which were deemed within the "normal range" some time ago. I'm just trying to join some dots as I'm starting to despair that this is just so not me. My motivation is markedly worse than it was a year ago before I started all this. I can't get T till my E is "optimised" and that is just not happening despite four different delivery methods and endless consults and bloods. Is my body actually saying "No!" and is it maybe time to start listening instead of putting myself through what feels like a very debilitating time for what, at 70 this year, feels like too long a time? 🤔

[Dotty]

Have you tried increasing the dose of oestrogen? X

[Postmeno3]

I'm waiting for this week's bloods, Dotty and the specialist's recommendations. I don't want to tamper myself at this stage, but the zero motivation can't continue. I had a reasonable quality of life, all things taken into account, before this. I hardly recognise myself a year later. Something is far from right. 👎

[sheila99]

Perhaps some of the demotivating is because you had such high for hrt and it hasn't delivered ? I think we'd all be fed up in your shoes. IMO changing to a different type of low dose oestrogen every 3 months is just wasting time while the remaining 'good' years of your life ebb away. I'd be tempted to see a specialist if you possibly can. I know it costs but there's nothing more important than your health (and as the saying goes there are no pockets in shrouds).

I would be a bit wary of 'within normal range'. Normal range of both oestrogen and testosterone in a 70 year old is way below what you might feel good on.

If oestrogen is low when you add T it gets converted to androgen. I'm not aware this can happen when you add oestrogen but perhaps it's possible. The answer seems to be blindingly obvious to everyone except your doc, you need more oestrogen.
Sorry to be blunt, I am getting frustrated on your behalf at the lack of progress.

[Postmeno3]

I appreciate your concern and empathy, sheila99. Perhaps there is some slight connection to disappointment and poor motivation. I do think that something is just not connecting somewhere, aggravating or exacerbating or counteracting to produce such an extreme response. I wasn't poorly motivated before and that was with M.E! Many symptoms are now dominating instead of becoming increasingly in the background, in theory. I am being guided by an NHS menopause specialist, but the way it's being managed is either way too cautious and random or my physiology is incompatible which is always possible, I guess.

[Hurdity]

Hi postmeno3 - sorry to hear about your ongoing symptoms. I presume you have had everything else looked at - thyroid, bloods, vitamins, iron etc and that these are all optimal? Are you generally fit and well with a good diet? Sleep well etc? I know we've corresponded before but I can't keep it all in my head! Sorry.

What dose of oestrogen are you taking? I don't know of studies which show that adding testosterone is converted to oestrogen when oestrogen is low but it is often mentioned on here. How are you being monitored if you are not taking any progestogen? Are you having flushes and sweats too and have your blood levels of E2 been measured recently?

Hurdity x

[Postmeno3]

Hi Hurdity,
Thanks for all this. Everything else has been checked and is fine. I eat well, supplementing with e.g D3 and sleep is pretty good mostly. Things are as optimal as possible given how I experience M.E., which I believe was hormonally, not virally triggered many years ago which is interesting in itself.
I am still being kept on the minimal dose,  Lenzetto now, monitored by an NHS specialist. My last bloods, on gel, were even lower than the patches. No progesterone needed as long "hysterectomised" decades ago and it is this that interests me in terms of testosterone as I understand hysterectomy causes a severe testosterone depletion. No flushes, occasional brief sweat after waking like a cortisol response. My bloods have just been done again, the result due in a week when the specialist will again review.
This theory of conversion from testosterone to oestrogen has no foundation then? If so, what is the logic of specialists in keeping testosterone off the consideration scale entirely until oestrogen is "optimised"? I may never attain that the way things are looking when everything I experience screams a need for testosterone. I'm just managing to stay curious, but I seem to be a very complex case and feeling increasingly worse over a whole year at this stage of life throws a big question mark into the mix? x