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[Postmeno3]

Hi,
I'm interested to hear from ladies on systemic hormonal replacement, especially oestrogen only, to understand how you feel this has really improved your ageing decline or made the issues more heightened. What has clearly improved and what is stuck or even deteriorating? How long did it take to stabilise or do you feel you're not there yet? I've reached a point of real confusion and would love some clarity on some kind of realistic expectation? Still with such incredibly low estradiol levels, I feel testosterone is maybe a vital missing link, but can I push the specialist for that when far, FAR from what's deemed necessary, "sufficient oestrogenisation"? 🤔

[Beaker]

Hi - I'm on Evorel 50 patches and Utrogestan.  I feel it has improved my overall "creakiness" - feeling stiff getting out of bed in the morning and having muscle aches.  The main reason I took it was because my sleep was disturbed (hourly) with hot flushes.  It took about 8 weeks before I felt the full effects.   

It's difficult to gauge your level of "sufficent oestrogenisation" other than in retrospect, judging by your symptom control.  I am on the lowest effective dose i.e. the lowest amount of oestrogen I can get away with that works in solving my problems (hot flushes).  You can only work that out by starting at a low dose and increasing until your symptoms go away. 

Not quite sure if that's what you were after...   

[Postmeno3]

Yeah, thanks. Glad you're noting improvement! 😊

[sheila99]

You may well be right about testosterone but it's unlikely they will prescribe it until your oestrogen levels are OK. Perhaps an extra pump of gel first?

[Postmeno3]

Thanks, sheila99. My bloods should be back this week to see if absorption is better on the gel; last level, 65. Still great caution with dosage at 25s. After these bloods, I'll hear about next steps. My testosterone was "within normal range" (NHS), but I'm always wary of that generalisation. How are your individual symptoms? Progress? Set-backs? Stuck? 🤔

[Nas]

Three years post meno here.

Sadly, I’m still in hormonal hell.

Have tried various regimes, nothing seems to really make me feel “well”.

Now plagued with bleeding and period type pain with patches.

The only thing is can say is, that whilst I was on gel at the beginning of my journey, I had the most horrendous driving anxiety. I suspect severe fluctuating hormones, as I felt I was on a boat sailing on choppy seas, whilst behind the wheel. Now, I can face driving without having a full on melt down. Whether that’s because the hormones have flattened or due to the patch, no idea.

I do know that without oestrogen, I cannot function. Yet I cannot find a regime which suits either.

So, unless you are pretty much symptom free, but feel you are missing that vital piece of the jigsaw, I can’t see how testosterone is going to work.

Also, I’m now wondering whether we are expecting Hrt to fix the unfix able? 

Maybe we need to accept that as we age, our bodies and minds are not going to be the same as pre menopause? It’s a very tough concept to grapple with.

Essentially, I’m stuck . But equally, have given up on oestrogen levels etc. I felt as rubbish on 463 as I did on 88 How does that work??

 

[sheila99]

I think we see things differently from the nhs. They're looking at 'ill' whereas we're looking at 'can function but could be so much better'. I think you're right to be sceptical of 'within normal limits' particularly as we age where 'normal' may be a great deal less than we feel good on. There are also many other factors at play besides the sex hormones, thyroid, vits etc etc. I was surprised to be deficient of vit d (in summer) as I spend more time outside than most. Presumably there are other functions that have deteriorated too but not to the levels where I become 'ill'. Thyroid is another one where can feel lousy but are within nhs 'normal levels'.
 You may be right that we expect too much but men don't seem to fall off a cliff the way we do, I'm inclined to think it's more that something is deficient but we don't know what, it may not be sex hormones at all.
 Postmeno do you have symptoms of low testosterone? For me it was zero libido and weak muscles. 65 for oestrogen does seem very low.

[Postmeno3]

Thanks, sheila99. I think what's emerging is that testosterone depletion in women is far more wide-reaching than has been thought (as in just sex drive). For me, there's an absence of libido and muscle strength, but also just "energy"; physiological and mental, particularly cognitive. I am hungry all the time. There can be emotional reactions, like rage. Generally, I like to think of it all as a loss of "brightness" across the board, if that makes sense; stamina, "oomph", drive?

[Postmeno3]

It would be great to hear the regimens of the oldest members and how that supports you well, in what ways. Do these ladies in particular feel their genetics, quality of life in general pre-HRT, absence of chronic conditions, not living alone/or living alone (!) has influenced their relative wellbeing now? Is private healthcare more likely to be more informed/accountable/specific? I suppose I'm trying to look into things holistically as, as sheila99 wisely suggested, challenges may have nothing to do with sex hormones at all. My addition to that would be they MAY (!) be helping, but not in the ways we need specifically and uniquely or are understood by our ageing bodyminds? Indeed, HRT may well not be for everyone by this stage of life despite the much younger, much more "privileged" Davina et al's exaltations!

[sheila99]

I think you're right the nhs doesn't give testosterone the importance it deserves. The problems getting it prescribed are bad enough if you're female, even worse that they will only prescribe for low libido when it does so much more than that. Rage is more likely to be oestrogen deficiency so I do think you'd benefit from increasing it. Perhaps discuss that and testosterone at your next appointment?

I don't know who you'd see for a more holistic approach as doctors specialise in one area only and without some idea of where to look it's difficult. Even if it turns out hrt isn't the whole answer I don't think you've come to the end of the road with it yet.
 Have you investigated thyroid? That can underlay weight gain and brain fog.

[Perinowpost]

Hi Postmeno3

Your question is a complicated one, I will try to answer it from my own experience.

From my own observations my friends and family who are on hrt definitely seem to be functioning and ageing more favourably on the whole than those I know who are not on hrt.

Testosterone can be the missing link (though not for everyone I believe). I asked to be referred to a specialist on the nhs and got it that way. That said I can’t tolerate a lot of it, and use a small petite pea blob 3 x per week. Any more I feel irritable and suffer from (mild) rage. I dialled it down to just 3 x per week and that’s been perfect for me. Benefits are increased energy, response (not libido though), and as you say oomph although I would call it confidence.

Hope this helps x

[Postmeno3]

Thank you. YES! Confidence! That's it! I am confused by the range of theories on when to give testosterone. NHS seems keen to wait for sufficient oestogenisation. Anyone know why this is? Then, the private groups, particularly, Dr. Newson, prescribe it alongside oestrogen regardless of levels. It kind of makes sense in that these hormones belong in a "family", not in isolation? Great to hear your elderly contacts are thriving! There IS hope!

[Nas]

If Oestrogen levels are not optimized, then apparently the testosterone gets converted to Oestrogen, which means you won’t feel the benefit of testosterone.

I was prescribed testosterone under Chelsea and Westminster clinic, 3 years ago, on the  NHS.  I’ve had breast cancer and was asked at the end of my consultation whether i wanted it, so said yes!

Admittedly it makes me a bit irritable, but once I’ve got an effective HRT  regime in place, I may give it another shot.

[Perinowpost]

Re the oestrogenisation I wasn’t allowed T until I’d been on O for 3 months. I seem to remember T on it’s own may be detrimental to the heart (I may have remembered this wrong though) x

[KarineT]

Hi Everyone,

I'm wondering if anyone is more than 2 years postmeno, not on HRT and symptom-free.

Thanks

Karine